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Post by firemac on Feb 3, 2019 12:02:54 GMT
A ten quid reader will give you ten quids worth of code reading, .... My mate Thomas Tit bought one ....... you only spray WD on a MAF if you want to bugger it. Don't agree, Charlie. I've used my cheapie for s few years now and it reads everything except some of the Saab Tech II codes and BMW's ABS ECU codes. But even expensive readers won't cover those; you need the manufacturer's kit for those codes. |
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Post by three5 on Feb 3, 2019 15:02:26 GMT
A ten quid reader will give you ten quids worth of code reading, .... My mate Thomas Tit bought one ....... you only spray WD on a MAF if you want to bugger it. Don't agree, Charlie. I've used my cheapie for s few years now and it reads everything except some of the Saab Tech II codes and BMW's ABS ECU codes. But even expensive readers won't cover those; you need the manufacturer's kit for those codes. Have to agree with you Jim. I've an Autel reader that is about 8 years old ( and cost about £70 when new! ), however like almost all things electronic, they have dropped in price dramatically since then. The whole point of the OBD II socket is that it is standardised across cars, so if a reader reads the codes, it reads them. As I understand it to sell cars in the EU they have to have a working OBD II socket. Don't know how the likes of BMW are getting around that unless they are exploiting the Manufacturer Defined codes in some way. I've never had to clean my MAF but seem to remember that you are supposed to use a cotton wool bud soaked in cleaning fluid rather than giving it a shower from an aerosol. AND use the bud VERY gently! |
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Post by firemac on Feb 3, 2019 17:46:30 GMT
Don't agree, Charlie. I've used my cheapie for s few years now and it reads everything except some of the Saab Tech II codes and BMW's ABS ECU codes. But even expensive readers won't cover those; you need the manufacturer's kit for those codes. Have to agree with you Jim. I've an Autel reader that is about 8 years old ( and cost about £70 when new! ), however like almost all things electronic, they have dropped in price dramatically since then. The whole point of the OBD II socket is that it is standardised across cars, so if a reader reads the codes, it reads them. As I understand it to sell cars in the EU they have to have a working OBD II socket. Don't know how the likes of BMW are getting around that unless they are exploiting the Manufacturer Defined codes in some way. I've never had to clean my MAF but seem to remember that you are supposed to use a cotton wool bud soaked in cleaning fluid rather than giving it a shower from an aerosol. AND use the bud VERY gently! |
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Post by firemac on Feb 3, 2019 17:47:34 GMT
Have to agree with you Jim. I've an Autel reader that is about 8 years old ( and cost about £70 when new! ), however like almost all things electronic, they have dropped in price dramatically since then. The whole point of the OBD II socket is that it is standardised across cars, so if a reader reads the codes, it reads them. As I understand it to sell cars in the EU they have to have a working OBD II socket. Don't know how the likes of BMW are getting around that unless they are exploiting the Manufacturer Defined codes in some way. I've never had to clean my MAF but seem to remember that you are supposed to use a cotton wool bud soaked in cleaning fluid rather than giving it a shower from an aerosol. AND use the bud VERY gently! As I understand it, manufacturers have to make their codes, etc freely available so that any garage can repair their specific models so they make their stuff accessible to garages who already have or are prepared to buy the gear needed to read restricted codes. They aren't obliged to make them available to the general public. If you go to indie BMW specialists then they have the diagnostics to read BMW codes but they had to buy the kit. Saab specialists have to buy GM's Tech II diagnostics to read restricted codes.
Even if you were inclined to spend mega-bucks on the necessary sophisticated diagnostics kit for a given model, it would be a pointless expense because any garage, franchised or indie, will insist in doing their own diagnostics (and charging for it) in order to decide what has to be repaired. They won't take your word for it even if you claim to have diagnosed the codes with the same gear they have.
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Post by charliefarlie on Feb 3, 2019 18:41:11 GMT
Gentlemen it has become a bit of a subject on a few car forums...
These generic cheap readers are very often leading the users well astray diagnosing ....... Well not the right things but things that are the result of the real problem. In other words diagnosing wrong.
It may tell you you have a snotty nose but it may not tell you why.
Way to generic. Decent readers will have a selection list where you can select the make model and genre of the specific car you are testing. Ten quid doesent buy that.
Ten quid reader ten quid results.
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Post by firemac on Feb 3, 2019 19:18:46 GMT
Gentlemen it has become a bit of a subject on a few car forums... These generic cheap readers are very often leading the users well astray diagnosing ....... Well not the right things but things that are the result of the real problem. In other words diagnosing wrong. It may tell you you have a snotty nose but it may not tell you why. Way to generic. Decent readers will have a selection list where you can select the make model and genre of the specific car you are testing. Ten quid doesent buy that. Ten quid reader ten quid results. I hear what you say, Charlie, but it doesn't change the fact that, unless you are going to do your own repair, a costly reader won't stop the garage doing their own diagnostics BEFORE they decide what has to be repaired. In many cases simply being able to use the reader's erase function often solves the problem; some years ago when we were running Vauxhalls as company cars, they were notorious for throwing pointless EML faults. Every time the dealer switched the EML off, it cost £40 (then). Investing in a cheap OBD reader saved a fortune over time.
In any event OBD codes are generic; they point you to the ECU circuit that's faulty but don't tell you exactly what has to be repaired/replaced. |
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Post by charliefarlie on Feb 3, 2019 19:40:02 GMT
Gentlemen it has become a bit of a subject on a few car forums... These generic cheap readers are very often leading the users well astray diagnosing ....... Well not the right things but things that are the result of the real problem. In other words diagnosing wrong. It may tell you you have a snotty nose but it may not tell you why. Way to generic. Decent readers will have a selection list where you can select the make model and genre of the specific car you are testing. Ten quid doesent buy that. Ten quid reader ten quid results. I hear what you say, Charlie, but it doesn't change the fact that, unless you are going to do your own repair, a costly reader won't stop the garage doing their own diagnostics BEFORE they decide what has to be repaired. In many cases simply being able to use the reader's erase function often solves the problem; some years ago when we were running Vauxhalls as company cars, they were notorious for throwing pointless EML faults. Every time the dealer switched the EML off, it cost £40 (then). Investing in a cheap OBD reader saved a fortune over time.
In any event OBD codes are generic; they point you to the ECU circuit that's faulty but don't tell you exactly what has to be repaired/replaced. I understand the generic thing, not bieng technical I’m struggling a bit for words here.... Try this. The main problem for garages are people getting the wrong indicators... They then bugger about trying to sort the problem the cheap readers are telling them is the problem. Often spending a heap of cash on the way. They then end up at garages like DNA telling the techs what is wrong. Now a decent reader with more and better calabash should indicate what IS wrong rather than the results of the core problem. So using a reader that is by default incapable of indicating because it can’t can cost a load of cash. It is is unreasonable to expect a ten quid reader to indicate accurately. You could and folk do end up replacing expensive parts that are perfectly fine and still have the same underlying and hidden problem because the cheap reader is just that. Cheap and inaccurate. |
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Post by Paulus17 on Feb 4, 2019 9:10:23 GMT
OK chaps so leaving the type of reader aside for now what is the correct way to clean this MAF sensor as I may as well do it especially if it hasn't been done previously and seems a job I can do, he says with everything crossed, then if it doesn't work I will have to wait for me mukka to turn up and have a goosey goosey and see what he says, if he comes??
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Post by Paulus17 on Feb 4, 2019 14:37:44 GMT
Spoke to the service manager when he phoned about the Yaris, about the Rav and the problem. Told him what has happened and reckons it is ok to drive minimally but really need to get it in to see it.
As it is an orange colour warning light it's ok but if it was red then don't drive it.
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Post by three5 on Feb 4, 2019 18:50:18 GMT
OK chaps so leaving the type of reader aside for now what is the correct way to clean this MAF sensor as I may as well do it especially if it hasn't been done previously and seems a job I can do, he says with everything crossed, then if it doesn't work I will have to wait for me mukka to turn up and have a goosey goosey and see what he says, if he comes?? ( A very sheepish Three5 here. ) I've just bought a can of cleaner and I'll do mine tomorrow as I doubt it's ever been done in 84k miles. I'll report back on the result  |
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Post by Paulus17 on Feb 5, 2019 7:02:07 GMT
OK chaps so leaving the type of reader aside for now what is the correct way to clean this MAF sensor as I may as well do it especially if it hasn't been done previously and seems a job I can do, he says with everything crossed, then if it doesn't work I will have to wait for me mukka to turn up and have a goosey goosey and see what he says, if he comes?? ( A very sheepish Three5 here. ) I've just bought a can of cleaner and I'll do mine tomorrow as I doubt it's ever been done in 84k miles. I'll report back on the result My tin of cleaner isn't due to be delivered until Wednesday or Thursday so will look forward to seeing how you get on Chris :TU: |
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Post by Paulus17 on Feb 6, 2019 15:24:47 GMT
Well folks the MAF cleaner was delivered today so I went and took the MAF sensor off and surprisingly it looked clean to me on both sides and on the inner, but gave it a little spray anyway while it was off, dried it gently then reassembled, took me about half an hour. Jumped in turned the ignition and the warning light had gone off and stayed off while I just let the engine tick over for about five minutes. So Mrs P will have to take it on a test drive and see if it has cured it or not, can't be that simple can it??   |
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Post by firemac on Feb 6, 2019 17:36:23 GMT
Well folks the MAF cleaner was delivered today so I went and took the MAF sensor off and surprisingly it looked clean to me on both sides and on the inner, but gave it a little spray anyway while it was off, dried it gently then reassembled, took me about half an hour. Jumped in turned the ignition and the warning light had gone off and stayed off while I just let the engine tick over for about five minutes. So Mrs P will have to take it on a test drive and see if it has cured it or not, can't be that simple can it?? Sometimes the EML appears for what can be really simple things and with no logical explanation. It only takes a very, very small deviation in resistance or voltage across one of the sensors to trigger the light. What can be telling is whether or not the ECU puts the car into "limp home" mode, i.e. restricted revs, speed, etc. This is to protect the engine from further damage and occurs where the fault is serious. If the car has not gone into LH mode that can indicate a very minor issue or a false warning.
My daughter's BMW threw a real wobbler of an EML (red with warnings about the need to drive slow, etc) but LH mode didn't kick in and we more or less ignored the EML until BMW were able to look at it. It turned out to be a faulty vacuum pump on the brake circuit but didn't warrant the severity of warning that the car was giving.
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Post by Paulus17 on Feb 7, 2019 7:31:00 GMT
Cheers Jim :TU:
Think we will still get it over to Toyota when we can so they can check it out :yes:
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Post by anchorman on Feb 7, 2019 9:54:24 GMT
Regarding code readers, the OBD computer only stores a code number and nothing else. It doesn’t matter if the reader is £10 or £10000, it will still extract the same number. The more expensive they are, the more complex the device’s interpretation of the result is. You can get a good little Autel reader for £25 ish these days that will give you the code and the GENERIC condition that the code refers to. This is the industry global standard meaning of the code and it might be a bit misleading through interpretation between different brands. I think this is what Chuck is alluding to. The more expensive ones will also read ABS and SRS codes so they tend to be in the £150-£350 price range. If you start going very expensive (£1000-£5000) they store vehicle specific information and can recognise the difference between a code on one make and model and the same code on another make and model. My mate’s Snap On device for which money you could have bought a very respectable car, will also suggest a sequence of diagnostics and corrective actions.
So! In answer to the which is best question, it depends what you want. If you only want the code number, the cheapest device you can get your hands on will do it. It won’t read anything other than P codes (powertrain) which is fine for most faults relating to the orange light. You have to remember that it will direct you to the effect and not necessarily the cause in other words, this “x” sensor reads out of range but it won’t tell you that it is only doing it because on this particular model the air filter is blocked or on another the fuel mixture valve if goosed etc.
Personally, I only want the code so I have a nice little Autel reader that was about £30. It is a colour coded thing that indicates whether a fault exists and it does give the generic report which will point me in the right direction (fuel, emissions, electrics etc). That’s all I want because once I’ve got the code I scurry off to my computer and then get into cross referencing that code with the car in question. My mate doesn’t have to do because his Snap On star ship Enterprise tells him there and then but he mends enough motors to justify the thing.
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