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Post by Hoovie on Oct 12, 2020 17:24:42 GMT
As an outsider looking in I cringe at how the UK has handled or should I more accurately say mishandled this situation from the very start?
They were far too late in starting to tackle the virus and they haven't improved even with the knowledge they could have obtained from other
countries. Mind you they do have the disadvantage as there are an awfully large amount of selfish moronic idiots walking around over there. A lot of how it goes is I think due to the way a country has "grown up" and how the people have been governed for the last few decades - and when you look around the rates for different countries you can to a degree have predicted which would be better than others. end of the day, as has been said, it is down to individuals common sense to where they go and what they do irrespective of any rules and laws. While I am not paranoid about things, I certainly do not ignore any risk. From Memory, I have been out to a Resturant once since March, not gone to a pub or cafe at all and where possible buy everything on-line. |
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Lockdown
Oct 14, 2020 5:56:41 GMT
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Post by widge on Oct 14, 2020 5:56:41 GMT
As an outsider looking in I cringe at how the UK has handled or should I more accurately say mishandled this situation from the very start?
They were far too late in starting to tackle the virus and they haven't improved even with the knowledge they could have obtained from other
countries. Mind you they do have the disadvantage as there are an awfully large amount of selfish moronic idiots walking around over there. A lot of how it goes is I think due to the way a country has "grown up" and how the people have been governed for the last few decades - and when you look around the rates for different countries you can to a degree have predicted which would be better than others. end of the day, as has been said, it is down to individuals common sense to where they go and what they do irrespective of any rules and laws. While I am not paranoid about things, I certainly do not ignore any risk. From Memory, I have been out to a Resturant once since March, not gone to a pub or cafe at all and where possible buy everything on-line. Its a very difficult call, here in France we are not doing too well either, it wasn't too bad until the lockdown was eased and the holiday season started héraut where i live in the south was one of the lowest areas, but come August every other car was dutch german or from other parts of France so now it is one of the highest along with all the other coastal regions, luckily we are about an hour away from the coast so we are away from the bad hotpots, also we are both retired and in the country therefore a lot easier for us to within reason self isolate. In addition France is a thru route between at least 10 other countries so it is not practical to close the borders for very long, Jeff you do have a big advantage being in a fairly sparsely populated island country making it a lot more practical to shut the boarders. Dave |
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Post by phaeton on Oct 14, 2020 19:05:18 GMT
Jeff you do have a big advantage being in a fairly sparsely populated island country making it a lot more practical to shut the boarders. Dave
But they will not do that, they won't even lockdown for another 2 weeks, which is the logical next steop
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 3:12:04 GMT
After the first signs of problems our NZ Govt. decided to close the borders, put the whole country into a
proper lockdown, not like the hairy fairy UK one. The only places allowed to be open were supermarkets, chemists
and garages. Only essential workers could get their vehicles serviced and under strict controls at garages.The
only people allowed to travel, and then only locally, were those termed essential workers.There were Police around
who could and did stop people and politely ask to say who they were and why they were out and about. If they were
not deemed vital journeys they were required to turn around and go back home. We also had restricted "bubbles".
This lasted about 4 weeks from memory but the result is NZ has been virtually back to normal for months although we
did have a slight blip a few weeks ago but that mainly affected Auckland only.
We are still getting Kiwi's returning who have Covid. All Kiwi's coming home must go into isolation, with no exceptions,
for 14 days. Only Kiwi's are allowed unless under very very special circumstances and so far that seems to be virtually
none.
That isn't the whole story and IF anyone has any questions I will try and answer them. Oh yes and both North and South
Islands are each bigger in land area than England.
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Lockdown
Oct 15, 2020 7:23:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by widge on Oct 15, 2020 7:23:03 GMT
After the first signs of problems our NZ Govt. decided to close the borders, put the whole country into a proper lockdown, not like the hairy fairy UK one. The only places allowed to be open were supermarkets, chemists and garages. Only essential workers could get their vehicles serviced and under strict controls at garages.The only people allowed to travel, and then only locally, were those termed essential workers.There were Police around who could and did stop people and politely ask to say who they were and why they were out and about. If they were not deemed vital journeys they were required to turn around and go back home. We also had restricted "bubbles". This lasted about 4 weeks from memory but the result is NZ has been virtually back to normal for months although we did have a slight blip a few weeks ago but that mainly affected Auckland only. We are still getting Kiwi's returning who have Covid. All Kiwi's coming home must go into isolation, with no exceptions, for 14 days. Only Kiwi's are allowed unless under very very special circumstances and so far that seems to be virtually none. That isn't the whole story and IF anyone has any questions I will try and answer them. Oh yes and both North and South Islands are each bigger in land area than England. It admit would be very difficult for the uk to close borders, but they do need to have a common message regarding lockdown, i am sure that all the pubs just outside liverpool will be packed after the latest measures . Even though the daily reports of cases appear to be higher here in France I understand that the rate of deaths above seasonal average in the UK is one of if not the highest in Europe. That is really the only thing that you can use as a guide, all the other figures rely on the amount of testing you do which varies from country to country. Dave |
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Post by philip42h on Oct 15, 2020 7:29:50 GMT
After the first signs of problems our NZ Govt. decided to close the borders, put the whole country into a proper lockdown, not like the hairy fairy UK one. The only places allowed to be open were supermarkets, chemists and garages. Only essential workers could get their vehicles serviced and under strict controls at garages.The only people allowed to travel, and then only locally, were those termed essential workers.There were Police around who could and did stop people and politely ask to say who they were and why they were out and about. If they were not deemed vital journeys they were required to turn around and go back home. We also had restricted "bubbles". This lasted about 4 weeks from memory but the result is NZ has been virtually back to normal for months although we did have a slight blip a few weeks ago but that mainly affected Auckland only. We are still getting Kiwi's returning who have Covid. All Kiwi's coming home must go into isolation, with no exceptions, for 14 days. Only Kiwi's are allowed unless under very very special circumstances and so far that seems to be virtually none. That isn't the whole story and IF anyone has any questions I will try and answer them. Oh yes and both North and South Islands are each bigger in land area than England. ... and your total population is less than that of the city of Birmingham. Population density is a key issue here - those of us living in rural more sparsely populated areas find 'social distancing' relatively easy to achieve; those in closely packed urban areas may find it almost impossible. And on population 'density' ... NZ has a well informed and relatively compliant population who will tend to do what their government asks gladly. The UK population seems rather more 'dense' and obdurate who just won't behave in a way that is recommended for their own good. The guidance from governments around the world is pretty much the same - in some countries the population largely follows that guidance; in others, a significant proportion of the 'population' decides that it knows better ... |
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Post by widge on Oct 15, 2020 8:30:50 GMT
Guys, what are your thoughts on this new 3 tier lockdown the government are considering bringing in. From what I’ve just read in Liverpool pubs,, Casinos, bookies bars and gyms are expected to be closed possibly for up to 6 months, whilst restaurants, schools and universities will remain open. As an example my daughters school closed down her year group along with another due to a teacher being positive and another few self isolating. To me I think the super spreaders is probably children. I’m not saying schools should close but I would’ve thought more stricter measures in schools and uni would be a better option rather than killing the economy. Ha sit even been thought out by the government? From what I can make out are the government even listening to SAGE? France has just anounced a 9pm curfew in seven major cities with fines of 130€ for people breaking it without reason, i think second offence is ten times that. Dave |
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Lockdown
Oct 15, 2020 8:34:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ravasher on Oct 15, 2020 8:34:42 GMT
Guys, what are your thoughts on this new 3 tier lockdown the government are considering bringing in. From what I’ve just read in Liverpool pubs,, Casinos, bookies bars and gyms are expected to be closed possibly for up to 6 months, whilst restaurants, schools and universities will remain open. As an example my daughters school closed down her year group along with another due to a teacher being positive and another few self isolating. To me I think the super spreaders is probably children. I’m not saying schools should close but I would’ve thought more stricter measures in schools and uni would be a better option rather than killing the economy. Ha sit even been thought out by the government? From what I can make out are the government even listening to SAGE? France has just anounced a 9pm curfew in seven major cities with fines of 130€ for people breaking it without reason, i think second offence is ten times that. Dave Yes, I was just listening to the news about it. Looks like Lancashire and Manchester are heading towards the tier 3 lockdown. They also mentioned that from the beginning of December universities will be online for 2 weeks to help keep the numbers down and allowing students to go home for the holidays. It’s starting to become worrying again let’s hope common sense prevails amongst those people that ignore the advice. |
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Post by clarki on Oct 15, 2020 9:41:31 GMT
After the first signs of problems our NZ Govt. decided to close the borders, put the whole country into a proper lockdown, not like the hairy fairy UK one. The only places allowed to be open were supermarkets, chemists and garages. Only essential workers could get their vehicles serviced and under strict controls at garages.The only people allowed to travel, and then only locally, were those termed essential workers.There were Police around who could and did stop people and politely ask to say who they were and why they were out and about. If they were not deemed vital journeys they were required to turn around and go back home. We also had restricted "bubbles". This lasted about 4 weeks from memory but the result is NZ has been virtually back to normal for months although we did have a slight blip a few weeks ago but that mainly affected Auckland only. We are still getting Kiwi's returning who have Covid. All Kiwi's coming home must go into isolation, with no exceptions, for 14 days. Only Kiwi's are allowed unless under very very special circumstances and so far that seems to be virtually none. That isn't the whole story and IF anyone has any questions I will try and answer them. Oh yes and both North and South Islands are each bigger in land area than England. Tbh the UK government did more or less the same thing. Here in Scotland the government pretended to be doing things stricter, cleverer, etc. But that wasn't the case. Just followed England, albeit 2 weeks later, and now back in more or less the same position. All this Covid stuff has proven to me is a professor is just somebody who never left school, a specialist isn't and a politician still doesn't have a clue  |
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Lockdown
Oct 15, 2020 10:53:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by firemac on Oct 15, 2020 10:53:10 GMT
"a professor is just somebody who never left school"
Love it! 😂
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Post by bothwellbuyer on Oct 15, 2020 12:05:38 GMT
We have a race on in Scotland....Boris wants to build a 'lovely wall' to keep the Scots in Scotland. He has paid his pal Hadrian a few £bn to act as the consultancy on the understanding Hadrian bungs the Tory coffers a couple of million.
Then wee Nic is intent on building the same wall to keep the English out (same wall but different objective), and has paid McKPMG a few Squillion to make the case, whilst Hadrian will probably get paid twice for building the same wall.
Meanwhile in downtown Wales, Offa has been engaged in building the biggest most beautiful dyke to keep the English out of Wales, and Donald Trump is in the running whether or not he wins his election next month.
Paddy in Ireland isn't that enamored by Boris engaging with SERCO to build a glorious bridge from somewhere in Britain to go across to somewhere in Ireland as it will encourage both English and Scottish to take the virus over there; and knacker their non-trade agreement to trade goods across a hidden border without border guards....which of course would become easy if a bridge existed.
I for one believe I can build the best bridges; the highest and strongest walls and would ask anyone here with any idea of laying bricks to join me as I bid for a £870m contract to lay the foundations of what I will call Hadrians wall after Hadrian - one of Boris's kids it is alleged. I have no qualifications regarding bridge structures, so am eminently qualified to bid for the bridge contract too.
And yes, I have a stockpile of 470 disposable masks as I visit various hostels and foodbanks daily handing in surplus waste food that supermarkets chuck out because the brand colour has changed. Wearing a mask is simple....problem is it keeps my breath safe, but doesn't filter the spray from other eejits who believe they are invincible and are now being very effective at spreading the virus. Does USA have the right idea about carrying a gun??
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Post by phaeton on Oct 17, 2020 21:17:02 GMT
What is currently boiling my piss is Andy Burnham, if the stats are to be believed Manchester is as bad as Liverpool, but he is using it as a bargaining chip to get more support funds, he's playing with people's lives but clearly believes political points are worth more!
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Post by charliefarlie on Oct 18, 2020 10:31:56 GMT
What is currently boiling my piss is Andy Burnham, if the stats are to be believed Manchester is as bad as Liverpool, but he is using it as a bargaining chip to get more support funds, he's playing with people's lives but clearly believes political points are worth more!
His point I believe is in his area there are more people on very low incomes. Furlough has in many cases actually made some better offf. But that aside if you have a reasonable income with a few quid left over to spend on holidays ect then 2/3rds May be enough to keep the wolf from the door. But if your on the vile minimum wage and struggling along to be down a third isn’t a nice place to be. Im not sure of the numbers of folk in these affected areas but he does have a point. There is of course politics here but both sides are playing at that. While Burnham or whoever are gobbling off it takes the focus off and the heat off the other big elephant in the room. Brexit. Boris and his cronies are having a field day doing as they like with it hardly being mentioned. Botooom wipes the lot of em... |
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Post by philip42h on Oct 18, 2020 13:39:57 GMT
What is currently boiling my piss is Andy Burnham, if the stats are to be believed Manchester is as bad as Liverpool, but he is using it as a bargaining chip to get more support funds, he's playing with people's lives but clearly believes political points are worth more!
His point I believe is in his area there are more people on very low incomes. Furlough has in many cases actually made some better offf. But that aside if you have a reasonable income with a few quid left over to spend on holidays ect then 2/3rds May be enough to keep the wolf from the door. But if your on the vile minimum wage and struggling along to be down a third isn’t a nice place to be. Im not sure of the numbers of folk in these affected areas but he does have a point. There is of course politics here but both sides are playing at that. While Burnham or whoever are gobbling off it takes the focus off and the heat off the other big elephant in the room. Brexit. Boris and his cronies are having a field day doing as they like with it hardly being mentioned. Botooom wipes the lot of em... While I recall that we'd agreed to 'avoid' political debate -  - it wouldn't hurt to get the arithmetic correct. Someone on minimum wage - let's say a single person aged 27 - working a 40 hour week would earn around £1,500 per month. If their employer's business was forced to close they would, of course, receive 2/3rds pay from the government / state via their employer - so around £1,000 per month. That much doesn't sound too good. But they would also be entitled to claim Universal Credit - the Universal Credit claims process is already updated to reflect this exact situation - and via Universal Credit they would receive an additional £495 per month. So, to be clear, someone on minimum wage working a 40 hour week would earn around £1,500 per month; under Tier 3 restrictions when their employer's business is required to close they would receive around £1,495 per month from the state / government; and net shortfall of £5 per month ... Unless he is really thick, Burham must know this; I rather doubt that he is really thick so there must be another explanation for his posturing ...  |
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Post by charliefarlie on Oct 18, 2020 14:08:11 GMT
His point I believe is in his area there are more people on very low incomes. Furlough has in many cases actually made some better offf. But that aside if you have a reasonable income with a few quid left over to spend on holidays ect then 2/3rds May be enough to keep the wolf from the door. But if your on the vile minimum wage and struggling along to be down a third isn’t a nice place to be. Im not sure of the numbers of folk in these affected areas but he does have a point. There is of course politics here but both sides are playing at that. While Burnham or whoever are gobbling off it takes the focus off and the heat off the other big elephant in the room. Brexit. Boris and his cronies are having a field day doing as they like with it hardly being mentioned. Botooom wipes the lot of em... While I recall that we'd agreed to 'avoid' political debate - - it wouldn't hurt to get the arithmetic correct. Someone on minimum wage - let's say a single person aged 27 - working a 40 hour week would earn around £1,500 per month. If their employer's business was forced to close they would, of course, receive 2/3rds pay from the government / state via their employer - so around £1,000 per month. That much doesn't sound too good. But they would also be entitled to claim Universal Credit - the Universal Credit claims process is already updated to reflect this exact situation - and via Universal Credit they would receive an additional £495 per month. So, to be clear, someone on minimum wage working a 40 hour week would earn around £1,500 per month; under Tier 3 restrictions when their employer's business is required to close they would receive around £1,495 per month from the state / government; and net shortfall of £5 per month ... Unless he is really thick, Burham must know this; I rather doubt that he is really thick so there must be another explanation for his posturing ... not strictly political debate and hard to avoid given the topic. I make that 40 hour x 4 loser to 1400 quid and that’s before any stoppages and travel. Given the average rent or mortgage that isn’t a lot of coin .... Take away a third of that and it’s going to be extremely tight. Running a car for example on the full amount must take some doing. |
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