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Post by Hoovie on Oct 8, 2018 7:37:52 GMT
Think I have asked this kind of question before but here goes.
My VW LT was serviced a year plus a few days ago. Since then it has done less than 4,000 miles. I do believe in the benefit of having regular oil changes, but how important is the oil filter in this process on a low miler?
The MOT date is Mid-May, so what I am thinking is replace the oil but leave the filter now, and then at end of April get the normal service done (as part of an MOT pre-check effectively). Does leaving an old filter with fresh oil negate the benefit? (I'd do the suck the oil up via the dipstick method BTW).
Then I am minded from April to have that 12 month service schedule with interim oil-only changes every 6 months.
Thoughts and Comments?
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Post by phaeton on Oct 8, 2018 10:10:34 GMT
I can't see the benefit of changing the oil & not the filter, seems like false economy to me, if anything I would have thought changing the filter & not the oil would be more beneficial no facts to base it on though.
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Post by Hoovie on Oct 8, 2018 13:05:44 GMT
I can't see the benefit of changing the oil & not the filter, seems like false economy to me, if anything I would have thought changing the filter & not the oil would be more beneficial no facts to base it on though.
this is my thought process (not saying I am right but it seems logical to me) ... - The filter is designed to filter out around 10,000 miles worth of the oil running around the engine. So it has a certain capacity to collect/filter contaminants and in
4,000 miles I have used just 40% of that capability - The oil is 'worn out' after 10,000 miles of running round the engine or has degraded/aged after 12 months sufficiently to warrant replacing
Of course you could reverse the Capacity and Age thing and work it the other way, but the way I have put it above seems logical? Why not change the filter? Because it is a messy job that I would prefer not to do and don't have the necessary removal/refit tool, but I can suck up the oil and refresh very easily. |
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Post by firemac on Oct 8, 2018 14:01:40 GMT
I too would think that a filter change would make sense when refreshing the oil if only to avoid cotaminating the new oil with an old, dirty filter. I can understand that an awkward filter is no fun to change, but, hey, that's life. Also, compared to the price of good quality oil, the filter cost is minimal.
To continue somewhat pedantically, didn't I read several articles over the years that said sucking the old oil out of the sump is nowhere near as good as allowing it to drain out when warmed up?
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Post by unclebob on Oct 8, 2018 14:34:29 GMT
Oil and filter once a year makes good sense regardless of mileage 👍🏻👍🏻
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Post by bigkev on Oct 8, 2018 16:26:51 GMT
Low mileage oil more liable to have condensation watter built up in it as standing about more in a cold cast engine. This imho leads to even more filter contamination, so filter should be changed also too forbye.........jiss dae it, Hoovie.......!!
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Post by kessac on Oct 9, 2018 10:33:43 GMT
I change my oil and filter every 6 months or 10,000 ks. dont know
how you guys rate. it but my first thought is cheaper than repairs
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Post by phaeton on Oct 9, 2018 10:52:27 GMT
To continue somewhat pedantically, didn't I read several articles over the years that said sucking the old oil out of the sump is nowhere near as good as allowing it to drain out when warmed up?
I have to say this is my preferred option as well, I know those suck out things look easy, but look at all the gunk that comes out with the oil via the drain plug, you're not going to get that down the dip hole.
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Post by philip42h on Oct 9, 2018 13:46:09 GMT
As someone who generally avoids getting his hands dirty these days I'd still be in favour of doing it properly - i.e. changing both the oil and the filter at the same time. But in a vehicle that is doing less than 6,000 miles a year I really can't see the point in doing an interim oil change - an annual service seems more than adequate to me. And, heretic that I am, I'd even go as far as doing the annual service maybe every 14 months rather than every 12 - it may violate the warranty conditions (if you had one) but as you say the oil is good for 10,000 miles or a year whichever comes first and it isn't going to instantly decompose on its birthday!  |
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Post by DjRav on Oct 9, 2018 21:34:13 GMT
Personally I’d change the oil and filter now- as its due.
I don’t understand why you’d do it again in April though, it won’t be due then!
Servicing and mot are two separate activity’s, do a check over by all means to avoid an unnecessary fail due to something silly.
Silly bit;
As a former (reformed) LR owner there was no point in pre mot checks as I already knew it would fail (only reliable feature- failed every year) then take a week off work and just fix all the stuff what it failed on (NOT advisory’s though, they are just made up stuff and I’d have enough to do already!)
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Post by Hoovie on Oct 10, 2018 7:13:34 GMT
Personally I’d change the oil and filter now- as its due. I don’t understand why you’d do it again in April though, it won’t be due then! Servicing and mot are two separate activity’s, do a check over by all means to avoid an unnecessary fail due to something silly. Silly bit; As a former (reformed) LR owner there was no point in pre mot checks as I already knew it would fail (only reliable feature- failed every year) then take a week off work and just fix all the stuff what it failed on (NOT advisory’s though, they are just made up stuff and I’d have enough to do already!) The plan is - and remains! - to move the service time to coincide with the MOT. It means I can get the vehicle serviced and will be in the best shape over the period of a year to then be MOTed without having to have a pre-MOT check specifically. Once done in April, it will then be done in the NEXT April. The question asked - and still remains unanswered in terms of facts - was should oil and filter always be done together. The oil is arriving on Friday. Just need to decide if going to get my hands dirty and my back aching to do the filter as well (probably not as 1) not got the right tools to remove and unlikely to use again if I bought them) and 2) can't be arsed to crawl around as doing that enough already on the undersealing) |
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Post by shcm on Oct 10, 2018 20:02:16 GMT
The question asked - and still remains unanswered in terms of facts - was should oil and filter always be done together. It's an interesting point David, but I'm sceptical that you'll get any real "facts" or figures, just hand waving mostly. For the real science, that you really need in order to understand this, you'd probably need somebody that specifies or "designed" oil filters. We're told oil degrades through a number of things. Elevated temperatures breaks up the long chain molecules, reducing it's ability to lubricate. Combustion products makes it more acidic (though I've never seen a figure quoted or those compared with specs on the things seals, that it's supposed to affect). Not unreasonable claims though. We're also not told what effect, say, temperature cycling or mostly just sitting in oil for 12 months (in your vehicle's case), has on the oil filter material (if any) and to what degree that affects its ability to filter. Don't get me wrong, the filter is super-important for all the usual reasons of maintaining good lubrication. As the oil tends to be the more expensive component, I think it's just a case of "wise economy" to always change the filter with it. Of course, many just run vehicles, neglecting to service, without any "apparent" ill effects, allegedly. A web search on this really doesn't seem to give any factual answers, just points of view & the usual mantra to change both. I'm kind of not surprised. As I "don't know, what I don't know" in this area, I stick to the recommendation of changing both together. It's nice and easy to do on a modern Toyota.   I suspect not changing the filter in your case will make very little difference, but if it were me, I would change it.  (Yes Kev, It's almost another oil thread!) |
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Post by charliefarlie on Oct 10, 2018 20:36:35 GMT
I always change both. Otherwise the dirty oil in the filter means only part of the oil is changed and the remaining would contaminate the fresh oil.
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Post by shcm on Oct 10, 2018 21:08:24 GMT
Well, playing devil's advocate, if we take Toyota (not VW), typically a Toyota's oil filter holds around 0.5 litres. If we took a diesel 4.3 RAV, that's 0.5 litre old oil "contamination" in 5.9 litres. 8.5% with those figures. However, the dry fill for a 4.3 diesel is 6.7 litres. You only ever put 5.9 litres back in for a normal oil & filter change, so even with the filter change there's still 0.8 litres of "contamination" that you can do nothing about - unless you completely strip down the engine. On the service data sheet, Toyota do quote the quantity figures for an oil fill, both with and without filter change. That maybe adds weight to David's case. I'd still change the filter though. Is that devils advocate the horrible creamy muck me gran used to drink at Christmas ?? Either that or babycham and she used to get pi$$ed and give me sixpence......... |
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Post by Mb2t on Oct 11, 2018 10:02:00 GMT
I think i would do it differently...
The logic is that oil does not degrade overnight, and as you have done only 4k miles, and probably will not do much over the winter, i would keep the oil and the filter, and do them as you plan in April.
I would assume there is quite a lot of margins in the recomendation of not using the oil more than a year, and it will be quite safe to do that.
M.
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