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Post by charliefarlie on Apr 19, 2024 21:00:14 GMT
Another couple of points against all sorts of EV's is that they weigh so much more than ICE vehicles. People rightly moan about poor roads filled with pot holes these days but what will these roads be like in the future? Heavy vehicles already cause more
and rapidly occurring damage so to add even more heavy vehicles will only make it worse won't it? Electric powered buses sound a brilliant idea, but are they as people still prefer their cars and how much heavier is a double decker bus over the normal bus? Finally over here all types of EV's are now liable for increased Taxes called Road User Charges so suddenly they are not as cheap to operate as people in the past were led to believe they would be. As Charlie says never believe Politicians. I expect we will end up paying per mile to use our cars but here in the UK the powers that be are or at least will be facing a simple problem. To offer a service or charge for a product it has to be fit for use… Our roads are not fit for purpose. |
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Post by firemac on Apr 20, 2024 17:26:00 GMT
Another couple of points against all sorts of EV's is that they weigh so much more than ICE vehicles. People rightly moan about poor roads filled with pot holes these days but what will these roads be like in the future? Heavy vehicles already cause more
and rapidly occurring damage so to add even more heavy vehicles will only make it worse won't it? Electric powered buses sound a brilliant idea, but are they as people still prefer their cars and how much heavier is a double decker bus over the normal bus? Finally over here all types of EV's are now liable for increased Taxes called Road User Charges so suddenly they are not as cheap to operate as people in the past were led to believe they would be. As Charlie says never believe Politicians. I expect we will end up paying per mile to use our cars but here in the UK the powers that be are or at least will be facing a simple problem. To offer a service or charge for a product it has to be fit for use… Our roads are not fit for purpose. Do you really think that will stop the thieving bastards, Charlie? ☹️ |
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Post by charliefarlie on Apr 20, 2024 17:50:40 GMT
I expect we will end up paying per mile to use our cars but here in the UK the powers that be are or at least will be facing a simple problem. To offer a service or charge for a product it has to be fit for use… Our roads are not fit for purpose. Do you really think that will stop the thieving bastards, Charlie? ☹️ No Jim not for a second. 👍👍 |
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Post by clarki on Apr 21, 2024 18:17:42 GMT
As you say, it's basically the same for any and all new cars - they are horrendously expensive to start with and depreciate at the same alarming rate that they always have. Much better to by something two, three or four years old once some other mug has paid off the depreciation already. Of course the rate of depreciation on EVs is even higher because the technology is moving forward so rapidly. Who really wants an older range limited EV when you can have a shiny new one with a better range - if you are prepared to pay the price. And, at present, I rather suspect that the new EV market is almost entirely sustained by the company car driver. So maybe a three year old ex-lease car is what one should be looking for? In today's market, the hybrid seems best - and they do seem to be holding residual values reasonably well. But things are likely to change as the ICE gets closer to extinction. And as for dodgy diesels ...  Why not just lease an EV?? Seems to be the most popular/cost effective method. |
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Post by charliefarlie on Apr 21, 2024 18:43:38 GMT
As you say, it's basically the same for any and all new cars - they are horrendously expensive to start with and depreciate at the same alarming rate that they always have. Much better to by something two, three or four years old once some other mug has paid off the depreciation already. Of course the rate of depreciation on EVs is even higher because the technology is moving forward so rapidly. Who really wants an older range limited EV when you can have a shiny new one with a better range - if you are prepared to pay the price. And, at present, I rather suspect that the new EV market is almost entirely sustained by the company car driver. So maybe a three year old ex-lease car is what one should be looking for? In today's market, the hybrid seems best - and they do seem to be holding residual values reasonably well. But things are likely to change as the ICE gets closer to extinction. And as for dodgy diesels ... Why not just lease an EV?? Seems to be the most popular/cost effective method. With leasing which is effectively renting surely it can’t be cost effective. Whether it’s a car or a telly renting is dead money …. |
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Post by davrav on Apr 21, 2024 18:46:14 GMT
As you say, it's basically the same for any and all new cars - they are horrendously expensive to start with and depreciate at the same alarming rate that they always have. Much better to by something two, three or four years old once some other mug has paid off the depreciation already. Of course the rate of depreciation on EVs is even higher because the technology is moving forward so rapidly. Who really wants an older range limited EV when you can have a shiny new one with a better range - if you are prepared to pay the price. And, at present, I rather suspect that the new EV market is almost entirely sustained by the company car driver. So maybe a three year old ex-lease car is what one should be looking for? In today's market, the hybrid seems best - and they do seem to be holding residual values reasonably well. But things are likely to change as the ICE gets closer to extinction. And as for dodgy diesels ... Why not just lease an EV?? Seems to be the most popular/cost effective method. Used to work with TVs......... |
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Post by charliefarlie on Apr 21, 2024 19:32:00 GMT
Why not just lease an EV?? Seems to be the most popular/cost effective method. Used to work with TVs......... Not for me David…. Rental company’s whether cars tellys or whatever have to make money…. I know I sound like a broken record when it comes to the never never but it’s how I was brought up. My old man educated me on car finance in the simplest of terms. First car buy and old banger. Then save for two years at which point you can pay on the nail then repeat….. So a little interest on the savings and no interest paid to any finance company… The only difference in a lifetime of buying cars is I drove an old banger for the first couple of years …. 👍👍 |
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Post by Mb2t on Apr 21, 2024 20:53:34 GMT
Used to work with TVs......... Not for me David…. Rental company’s whether cars tellys or whatever have to make money…. I know I sound like a broken record when it comes to the never never but it’s how I was brought up. My old man educated me on car finance in the simplest of terms. First car buy and old banger. Then save for two years at which point you can pay on the nail then repeat….. So a little interest on the savings and no interest paid to any finance company… The only difference in a lifetime of buying cars is I drove an old banger for the first couple of years …. 👍👍 In my eyes it is much simpler - you add a middle man, he takes his cut, so it cannot be cheaper! Someone has to pay for all that! As per charge per mile, if Londoners will not kick the current mayor out, that what they will get - he stated it publicly!!! ( Yes, the only reason is he has a great big hole in the budget, so the cash cows ie car owners will cover it) |
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Post by clarki on Apr 21, 2024 21:03:56 GMT
Used to work with TVs......... Not for me David…. Rental company’s whether cars tellys or whatever have to make money…. I know I sound like a broken record when it comes to the never never but it’s how I was brought up. My old man educated me on car finance in the simplest of terms. First car buy and old banger. Then save for two years at which point you can pay on the nail then repeat….. So a little interest on the savings and no interest paid to any finance company… The only difference in a lifetime of buying cars is I drove an old banger for the first couple of years …. 👍👍 The world moves on though. Personally I wouldn’t want to own an EV, they’re worth nothing used and cost a fortune new. So the depreciation > the lease cost. Our lease includes everything, insurance, tyre’s, everything, all we do is charge it. We get a brand new, latest tech, 4wd, 540hp BMW…and in 2 years time we get to choose something else. Yeah, we’ll never own it, but these days, your daily driver, who needs to. Might as well keep the big sums of money for something important, fun, profitable, etc What’s the saying…”if it goes up in price, buy it…if it goes down, rent it” Handing over all the money for something up front isn’t always sensible, what if it goes wrong?? They’ve already got all the money, why would they care? If you can drip-feed a faceless company small amounts each month, why not. Obviously the above is useless for a fun car that you have an emotional attachment to. I bought my slk and in so doing lost a fortune 🤔 but it makes me happy 😀 |
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Post by philip42h on Apr 21, 2024 21:38:26 GMT
I can see a time coming when I no longer want money tied up in a car and I'd be happy to lease for the balance of my driving life. That sounds a better plan that driving an increasingly old car that no longer really meets my needs. But I don't think that I am quite there yet - maybe ... |
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Post by charliefarlie on Apr 22, 2024 11:38:53 GMT
Not for me David…. Rental company’s whether cars tellys or whatever have to make money…. I know I sound like a broken record when it comes to the never never but it’s how I was brought up. My old man educated me on car finance in the simplest of terms. First car buy and old banger. Then save for two years at which point you can pay on the nail then repeat….. So a little interest on the savings and no interest paid to any finance company… The only difference in a lifetime of buying cars is I drove an old banger for the first couple of years …. 👍👍 The world moves on though. Personally I wouldn’t want to own an EV, they’re worth nothing used and cost a fortune new. So the depreciation > the lease cost. Our lease includes everything, insurance, tyre’s, everything, all we do is charge it. We get a brand new, latest tech, 4wd, 540hp BMW…and in 2 years time we get to choose something else. Yeah, we’ll never own it, but these days, your daily driver, who needs to. Might as well keep the big sums of money for something important, fun, profitable, etc What’s the saying…”if it goes up in price, buy it…if it goes down, rent it” Handing over all the money for something up front isn’t always sensible, what if it goes wrong?? They’ve already got all the money, why would they care? If you can drip-feed a faceless company small amounts each month, why not. Obviously the above is useless for a fun car that you have an emotional attachment to. I bought my slk and in so doing lost a fortune 🤔 but it makes me happy 😀 I didn't realise I could get a 540BHP car with everything paid for a small amount each month ..... I doubt very much your SLK will loose a fortune. Even finding one is hard and then they are big money. Id bet a very large wad of cash the BMW will have cost a lot more per year than the SLK . In all my years motoring Ive never seen a finance or PCP or deal that works out cheaper than paying for the car. I always have bought near new or new so if they go wrong it warranty time. I've only bought a few cars that have made money. Lets be honest most dont so I refuse to add to the burden by making someone else rich. Honestly I couldn't care how folk buy their cars its their choice they have to pay not me. Whatever suits at the end of the day eh.................... |
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Post by clarki on Apr 22, 2024 20:09:52 GMT
Oh it’s definitely horses for course’s Charlie. These days one solution may work for some but not others. They all have their pros and cons.
Mrs clarki likes those 0% finance deals where you put 50% down now and pay the rest over 24 months. However, back when she turned 40 she had always wanted an F-Type. We didn’t have £60k+ back then but we could afford £398/month. Dream realised, and that’s what life’s all about.
I’m treating the i4 as a business requirement/cost. It’s part of a bigger picture/spreadsheet rather than just a car purchase. Sure I’m a petrolhead at heart and could have taken on a car which cost less, what’s a small amount these days anyway, but where’s the fun in that. Maybe I’m a bit less blinkered than others but I like EVs. The i4 drives nicely, is simple to use, great spec, pennies to run and the acceleration just makes you laugh out loud. BMW have definitely focused on the driving dynamics with this model and it shows. Miles ahead of the others that we tried in that department with maybe the Taycan the only exception but it’s a whole new price level, definitely not a small monthly, and a few reliability woes reported with that too.
Will see how we get on, I may be wrong, will report back in a couple of years. You know me, I’ll certainly say it how it is, good or bad 😀
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Post by charliefarlie on Apr 22, 2024 20:57:20 GMT
Oh it’s definitely horses for course’s Charlie. These days one solution may work for some but not others. They all have their pros and cons. Mrs clarki likes those 0% finance deals where you put 50% down now and pay the rest over 24 months. However, back when she turned 40 she had always wanted an F-Type. We didn’t have £60k+ back then but we could afford £398/month. Dream realised, and that’s what life’s all about. I’m treating the i4 as a business requirement/cost. It’s part of a bigger picture/spreadsheet rather than just a car purchase. Sure I’m a petrolhead at heart and could have taken on a car which cost less, what’s a small amount these days anyway, but where’s the fun in that. Maybe I’m a bit less blinkered than others but I like EVs. The i4 drives nicely, is simple to use, great spec, pennies to run and the acceleration just makes you laugh out loud. BMW have definitely focused on the driving dynamics with this model and it shows. Miles ahead of the others that we tried in that department with maybe the Taycan the only exception but it’s a whole new price level, definitely not a small monthly, and a few reliability woes reported with that too. Will see how we get on, I may be wrong, will report back in a couple of years. You know me, I’ll certainly say it how it is, good or bad 😀 I do understand the tax points on cars and commercial vehicles and the changes that allow the entire costs to be written off in year one plus VAT reclamation… But I like pretty much everyone here don’t qualify for that. I had 38 years in which I did but that’s all behind me now. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with having nice kit I used to do the same. Maybe I got it out of my system or maybe it’s because I can’t lay a decent % of the cost off I don’t know but when I had the nice kit I still paid in full. It’s just the way I was brought up and how I was influenced and nothing will or could have changed that 👍👍 |
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