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Post by philip42h on Apr 14, 2024 9:53:02 GMT
will we see the equivalent of the North American RAV Prime? that will be even more £?. maybe they put that tech in the UK Lexus vehicles.....5.4sec to 60 ! rav4 primeYes. The plug-in hybrid version of the RAV4 appears badged as the RAV4 Prime in North America and as the RAV4 Plug-in (aka RAV4 PHEV) in Europe. Both have the same technical spec and performance; both are (or were) built in the same factory in Japan - while North American RAV4 HEVs are built in Canada. When they wrap it in a Lexus skin they call it the NX 450H+ I believe ... Exactly the same car with differing levels of trim. Edit: in Europe they quote "nought to 62mph covered in just six seconds". It's been around since 2021 and was originally priced at around £10k more than the standard HEV (which is why I don't have one  ). Secondhand prices remain high and, probably, reflect that original premium. The premium for the PHEV is a lot lower now at £2k-£3k ... |
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Post by sich1 on Apr 14, 2024 10:39:22 GMT
will we see the equivalent of the North American RAV Prime? that will be even more £?. maybe they put that tech in the UK Lexus vehicles.....5.4sec to 60 ! rav4 primeYes. The plug-in hybrid version of the RAV4 appears badged as the RAV4 Prime in North America and as the RAV4 Plug-in (aka RAV4 PHEV) in Europe. Both have the same technical spec and performance; both are (or were) built in the same factory in Japan - while North American RAV4 HEVs are built in Canada. When they wrap it in a Lexus skin they call it the NX 450H+ I believe ... Exactly the same car with differing levels of trim. Edit: in Europe they quote "nought to 62mph covered in just six seconds". It's been around since 2021 and was originally priced at around £10k more than the standard HEV (which is why I don't have one ). Secondhand prices remain high and, probably, reflect that original premium. The premium for the PHEV is a lot lower now at £2k-£3k ... ahhh, i see, never knew that. tks for educating in the ways of the RAV  |
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Post by clarki on Apr 14, 2024 14:54:19 GMT
I think the RAV4s problem is not that people can’t afford it, more that for the same monthly you can get a premium badge vehicle. We had the bZ4x for 24 hours - neither of us thought it was any good, and it’s definitely not premium. I can only see the EV date going back further too. We’re enjoying the EV experience though. Very easy to drive and charging at home and work is easy. Haven’t, and unlikely to, use public chargers. Bonkers fast in a straight line. An ICE car doesn’t stand a chance. 0-100mph in 7.9s 😳 My son has a Tesla Twin motor. It’s the fastest thing I’ve ever driven. 60 in 3.2. But it’s a soulless drive. No nice dials just a screen sat in its dash like a telly in Curry’s. Compared to his previous fashion Hondas it’s …… Well lest put it this way if they were 10K I wouldn’t want one. The Volvo looks like a fridge… Hyundai have an electric car that’s almost impossible to work out which is the front and which is the back.I’ve had both luxury and fast cars most of which had character… That’s been dialled out of cars. I think I’ve lived through possibly the best car years. They’re coming to an end now though… Everyone always thinks their time was the best; music, cars, tv… Thing is imo 1 car has never ticked all boxes. A daily car and a fun car are rarely the same. Nowadays, particularly if you salary sacrifice, an EV can make a sensible daily. Teslas are popular because of the tax breaks, they do have the best range, best public charge network and because they’re by far the lightest actually ride quite nicely. We liked it but went for the i4 because the interior is more normal and the Model 3 looks just don’t quite work in my eyes. Plenty of ICE cars have zero character/soul (whatever that is), my Corolla is a prime example, and look crap, EVs haven’t invented that. |
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Post by bothwellbuyer on Apr 17, 2024 9:41:50 GMT
My daughter just got a Mercedes battery car. Hilarious. They need to take it 6 miles to the nearest working charge points, and either leave it there and get the bus home, or wait in the car an hour or two. The 1 charge point in the village is either being used or broken. They are having to get the fuse boxes in their old big house updated to allow a charging point to be installed at home.
(Me sits back quietly and chuckled) Oh, and I didn't offer use of one of my RAV4 petrol cars !
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Post by firemac on Apr 17, 2024 13:32:56 GMT
My daughter just got a Mercedes battery car. Hilarious. They need to take it 6 miles to the nearest working charge points, and either leave it there and get the bus home, or wait in the car an hour or two. The 1 charge point in the village is either being used or broken. They are having to get the fuse boxes in their old big house updated to allow a charging point to be installed at home. (Me sits back quietly and chuckled) Oh, and I didn't offer use of one of my RAV4 petrol cars ! BEVs are useless piles of 💩 IMHO. 😊 |
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Post by philip42h on Apr 17, 2024 15:08:12 GMT
My daughter just got a Mercedes battery car. Hilarious. They need to take it 6 miles to the nearest working charge points, and either leave it there and get the bus home, or wait in the car an hour or two. The 1 charge point in the village is either being used or broken. They are having to get the fuse boxes in their old big house updated to allow a charging point to be installed at home. (Me sits back quietly and chuckled) Oh, and I didn't offer use of one of my RAV4 petrol cars ! BEVs are useless piles of 💩 IMHO. 😊 Do I detect a certain unfounded bias here?  BEVs are simply brilliant - IMHO - but, as above, the infrastructure isn't quite ready yet and some of the BEVs are designed by idiots. Speaking of which, is it really sensible to get an EV before getting the home charger sorted? |
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Post by charliefarlie on Apr 17, 2024 16:28:23 GMT
My son has a BEV in the form of a Tesla twin motor. Daughter has a VW ID5 ( company car ) both are amazing but dull as dish water if you can dismiss the simply outrageous performance of the Tesla. The ID5 shifts as well…. Range on both cars very good again the Tesla gets the trophy….
I wouldn’t have either as a gift. The Audi RSs the M3 BMWs among others I’ve had would get mullered performance wise but they felt like incredibly involving fast cars with the sounds that used to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up…. You get none of the theatre little of the raw excitement just speed….
The gun has been jumped by those who believed the frankly hideous hype about this country going electric. I doubt we will ever have the required infrastructure anyway. Certain manufacturers are furious because they have invested heavily in the electric revolution that may never come. More fool them I say anyone daft enough to believe a politician I’d bloody stupid and gullible.
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Post by clarki on Apr 17, 2024 19:57:46 GMT
Charlie, for many it’s also about the salary sacrifice and BIK tax benefits/relief. No jumping the gun there, just benefitting from political policy. No ULEZ costs. 100 miles is about 6 quid charged overnight.
The i4 doesn’t have the noise or drive of the slk, but honestly I don’t need that driving into Glasgow every day at 6am. The fact you smoke RSs and M cars for fun is a nice by-product 😎
Wouldn’t want to rely on the public charge network though that’s for sure.
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Post by stu@work on Apr 18, 2024 11:49:29 GMT
what about the depreciation cost for a private buyer, that must be horrendous. i can imagine you could loose 10k a year without trying too hard.
or even a £500/month pcp you would cough up 18k+ then have nothing at the end of it, same with all cars though not just electric. people seem compelled these days
to have a new car on the drive even if it bleeds them dry.....mugs!
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Post by philip42h on Apr 18, 2024 12:49:33 GMT
what about the depreciation cost for a private buyer, that must be horrendous. i can imagine you could loose 10k a year without trying too hard. or even a £500/month pcp you would cough up 18k+ then have nothing at the end of it, same with all cars though not just electric. people seem compelled these days to have a new car on the drive even if it bleeds them dry.....mugs! As you say, it's basically the same for any and all new cars - they are horrendously expensive to start with and depreciate at the same alarming rate that they always have. Much better to by something two, three or four years old once some other mug has paid off the depreciation already. Of course the rate of depreciation on EVs is even higher because the technology is moving forward so rapidly. Who really wants an older range limited EV when you can have a shiny new one with a better range - if you are prepared to pay the price. And, at present, I rather suspect that the new EV market is almost entirely sustained by the company car driver. So maybe a three year old ex-lease car is what one should be looking for? In today's market, the hybrid seems best - and they do seem to be holding residual values reasonably well. But things are likely to change as the ICE gets closer to extinction. And as for dodgy diesels ... |
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Post by firemac on Apr 18, 2024 12:51:26 GMT
BEVs are useless piles of 💩 IMHO. 😊 Do I detect a certain unfounded bias here? BEVs are simply brilliant - IMHO - but, as above, the infrastructure isn't quite ready yet and some of the BEVs are designed by idiots. Speaking of which, is it really sensible to get an EV before getting the home charger sorted? No, not unfounded bias, simply my opinion based on what I can see of the whole EV fiasco. Ford, GM and VAG, amongst others, bought into the EV bubble, invested billions in production capacity, killed off their (very profitable) ICE models, stopped any development for anything other than EVs and piously told their consumers to like it or lump it. Now, EV sales have fallen off a cliff and more than that, petrol and hybrid sales have increased! All those major manufacturers (as well as Tesla) are furiously cutting back that EV production capacity, laying off workers and desperately trying to shift mountains of these cars in storage that nobody wants. The only manufacturers who have bucked this myopic trend are Toyota and Stellantis, the former concentrating on hybrid technology as the way forward and also the latter although to an understandably lesser extent given that their offering is nowhere near as mature as Toyota's. There is a basic stupidity attached to the concept of trying to market a product that isn't developed to any practical degree, has relatively no supporting infrastructure and as you so eloquently put it, is "designed by idiots". Betamax comes to mind........ Unfortunately for those short-sighted manufacturers and the asinine politicians whom they so blindingly followed, Joe Public ain't stupid. He can recognise snake oil when he sees it not to mention the underlying dishonesty attaching to the environmental credentials of EVs, i.e. zero tailpipe emissions but only as a result of increased fossil-fueled power generation to charge the poxy things. How the f**k does that make them brilliant, for God's sake?? |
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Post by philip42h on Apr 18, 2024 15:25:07 GMT
Do I detect a certain unfounded bias here? BEVs are simply brilliant - IMHO - but, as above, the infrastructure isn't quite ready yet and some of the BEVs are designed by idiots. Speaking of which, is it really sensible to get an EV before getting the home charger sorted? How the f**k does that make them brilliant, for God's sake?? To drive - EVs are just brilliant to drive ... OK, I fully respect the view of those, not to mention Charlie of course, who will lament the passing of the sound of the internal combustion engine, the skill required to pick the right gear at the right time and the sheer pleasure of driving on the open road. But for me, that pleasure is largely gone and the easier the car is to drive, the better - leaving me more time and attention to avoid the ... and an EV delivers just that. |
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Post by davrav on Apr 18, 2024 16:12:11 GMT
Personally I am of the opinion that an EV of any flavour is brilliant for city/town driving or a short(ish) commute. For me, where they fall down is longer journeys with a full load and or 'press on' driving.
Infrastructure for BEVs is a long way to being economic or practical and reliable enough for mass usage thereof.
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Post by charliefarlie on Apr 18, 2024 16:30:49 GMT
what about the depreciation cost for a private buyer, that must be horrendous. i can imagine you could loose 10k a year without trying too hard. or even a £500/month pcp you would cough up 18k+ then have nothing at the end of it, same with all cars though not just electric. people seem compelled these days to have a new car on the drive even if it bleeds them dry.....mugs! My sentiments exactly. I loath finance absolutely loath it. Fortunately my two kids have heeded my words over the years. Clarki I get the BIK and tax equations, Son is an accountant so he knows the ins and outs. My daughter is saving in the region of £300 a month in BIK since having a full electric car rather than another expensive gas guzzler…. Me I buy what I can afford to pay for on the day or I don’t have it. I must be getting tight cos we’ve had our 2 current Toyotas for 10 years or more now… 😜😜 |
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ravjeff
Club Regular
Posts: 756
Location: New Zealand
Primary Vehicle: RAV4
Model Spec/Trim: GLX
Engine Capacity: 2.5L
Fuel Type: Petrol
Transmission: Automatic
Drive Type: 4WD/AWD
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Post by ravjeff on Apr 19, 2024 19:12:16 GMT
Another couple of points against all sorts of EV's is that they weigh so much more than ICE vehicles. People rightly moan about poor roads filled with pot holes these days but what will these roads be like in the future? Heavy vehicles already cause more
and rapidly occurring damage so to add even more heavy vehicles will only make it worse won't it? Electric powered buses sound a brilliant idea, but are they as people still prefer their cars and how much heavier is a double decker bus over the normal bus? Finally over here all types of EV's are now liable for increased Taxes called Road User Charges so suddenly they are not as cheap to operate as people in the past were led to believe they would be. As Charlie says never believe Politicians. |
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). Secondhand prices remain high and, probably, reflect that original premium. The premium for the PHEV is a lot lower now at £2k-£3k ...
