|
|
Post by philip42h on Jan 21, 2024 19:21:52 GMT
Here's an excellent YouTube video on how transaxle of the Toyota Self Charging Hybrid system:
|
|
|
|
Post by philip42h on Jan 21, 2024 19:37:46 GMT
... and then some definitions: - ICE - a traditional vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine
- Mild hybrid - and ICE with the addition of electric motors and battery to recover some of the energy wasted in braking and help out the ICE with acceleration. These are often 48V systems or similar and cannot drive on battery power alone.
- Self charging or full hybrid - a hybrid with larger battery and electric motors that can be directly charged by running the ICE. In Toyotas case this is a 355V system and the car can operate as an EV over a limited range. Note, however, that all the power comes from burning fossil fuels.
- PHEV - a full hybrid that can be plugged-in to charge the [larger] battery. This gives the vehicle a far more significant EV range ... but ultimately once the battery runs down it reverts to running as a self charging hybrid driven by the ICE.
- EV - a vehicle driven by electric motors and reliant on charge stored in a battery. It dispenses with the ICE.
- EV with range extender - an EV that has a supplementary ICE that is used solely as a generator to charge the battery. The ICE does not drive the wheels directly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hoovie on Jan 21, 2024 23:14:01 GMT
... and then some definitions: - ICE - a traditional vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine
- Mild hybrid - and ICE with the addition of electric motors and battery to recover some of the energy wasted in braking and help out the ICE with acceleration. These are often 48V systems or similar and cannot drive on battery power alone.
- Self charging or full hybrid - a hybrid with larger battery and electric motors that can be directly charged by running the ICE. In Toyotas case this is a 355V system and the car can operate as an EV over a limited range. Note, however, that all the power comes from burning fossil fuels.
- PHEV - a full hybrid that can be plugged-in to charge the [larger] battery. This gives the vehicle a far more significant EV range ... but ultimately once the battery runs down it reverts to running as a self charging hybrid driven by the ICE.
- EV - a vehicle driven by electric motors and reliant on charge stored in a battery. It dispenses with the ICE.
- EV with range extender - an EV that has a supplementary ICE that is used solely as a generator to charge the battery. The ICE does not drive the wheels directly.
My Citroen DS4 and DS5 'Airdreams' were both MicroHybrid. TBH I don't really know what that was meant to mean  They had no electric propulsion in any way. the EV with Range extender has also been referred to as e-Power (Nissan Term). I think this is a great option which is as far as I can see very similar to a Petrol/Electric Hybrid but is classified as a 100% fully-electric vehicle so has the same 'road-charging' benefits as pure electric cars. There was a concept Motorhome using this drivetrain system shown in the main show in Germany last year. |
|
|
|
Post by philip42h on Jan 22, 2024 8:06:28 GMT
The Citroen micro-hybrid appears to be a better stop-start system coupled with some regenerative braking. I guess that it operates at 12V ...
From the web:
|
|
|
|
Post by firemac on Jan 22, 2024 12:09:59 GMT
Nissan’s e-Power system is an interesting system and certainly more compelling than pure BEVs ( leaving aside doubts about its reliability given that Nissans are largely re-badged Renaults). Nevertheless the fact that the ICE has no direct link to the drive wheels doesn’t make it an EV. Add to that the further fact that you cannot charge the battery directly and I’d suggest that these are not EVs but petrol vehicles in reality. Quoted MPG for the Cashcow FWD version of 53.3 mpg isn’t great when you consider that the Yaris X Hybrid achieves something over 60 mpg and you can get the latter in AWD which is not available in the Renault, sorry, Nissan.
I ain’t convinced, although if it was being produced by anyone other than Nissan, I’d look at it more favourably.
|
|
|
|
Post by sich1 on Jan 22, 2024 17:33:20 GMT
tks for the guide, that video was a bit info heavy...lol
|
|
|
|
Post by Hoovie on Jan 23, 2024 18:38:43 GMT
The Citroen micro-hybrid appears to be a better stop-start system coupled with some regenerative braking. I guess that it operates at 12V ... From the web: Kind of funny reading it might be a better stop-start system I do like the idea of Stop-Start and the only cars I have had it on were the two Citroen DS's.... It rarely worked on either. It would work for a short time and then never engage. I once put the battery on a charger for a day to make sure it was full and the Stop start started working again, but then failed to engage again pretty soon afterwards. I think my experience was/is not that uncommon. |
|
|
|
Post by Hoovie on Jan 23, 2024 18:41:06 GMT
Nissan’s e-Power system is an interesting system and certainly more compelling than pure BEVs ( leaving aside doubts about its reliability given that Nissans are largely re-badged Renaults). Nevertheless the fact that the ICE has no direct link to the drive wheels doesn’t make it an EV. Add to that the further fact that you cannot charge the battery directly and I’d suggest that these are not EVs but petrol vehicles in reality. Quoted MPG for the Cashcow FWD version of 53.3 mpg isn’t great when you consider that the Yaris X Hybrid achieves something over 60 mpg and you can get the latter in AWD which is not available in the Renault, sorry, Nissan. I ain’t convinced, although if it was being produced by anyone other than Nissan, I’d look at it more favourably. It makes it an EV legally. And that in many cases is what may be important. As far as Nissans go, never had any issues with the two I owned, or the old beaten up Renault 12 |
|
|
|
Post by philip42h on Jan 23, 2024 18:51:46 GMT
The Citroen micro-hybrid appears to be a better stop-start system coupled with some regenerative braking. I guess that it operates at 12V ... From the web: Kind of funny reading it might be a better stop-start system I do like the idea of Stop-Start and the only cars I have had it on were the two Citroen DS's.... It rarely worked on either. It would work for a short time and then never engage. I once put the battery on a charger for a day to make sure it was full and the Stop start started working again, but then failed to engage again pretty soon afterwards. I think my experience was/is not that uncommon. Of course, Toyota hybrids have the world's best stop-start system (probably) - if you just lift-off the throttle the engine stops (probably) and when you press the throttle again the electric motors provide propulsion immediately while the engine restarts almost imperceptibly(and without any 0.4 second delay!). |
|
|
|
Post by firemac on Jan 23, 2024 19:25:10 GMT
Nissan’s e-Power system is an interesting system and certainly more compelling than pure BEVs ( leaving aside doubts about its reliability given that Nissans are largely re-badged Renaults). Nevertheless the fact that the ICE has no direct link to the drive wheels doesn’t make it an EV. Add to that the further fact that you cannot charge the battery directly and I’d suggest that these are not EVs but petrol vehicles in reality. Quoted MPG for the Cashcow FWD version of 53.3 mpg isn’t great when you consider that the Yaris X Hybrid achieves something over 60 mpg and you can get the latter in AWD which is not available in the Renault, sorry, Nissan. I ain’t convinced, although if it was being produced by anyone other than Nissan, I’d look at it more favourably. It makes it an EV legally. And that in many cases is what may be important. As far as Nissans go, never had any issues with the two I owned, or the old beaten up Renault 12 I can’t comprehend how a vehicle that can only be used once it’s been filled with petrol can be classified as an EV. But in view of the current obsession of governments and authorities generally with trying to obliterate common sense, it not surprising that those cars are classified as EVs. Mind you, bearing in mind that BEVs are charged up using electricity generated by fossil fuel, the Nissan is doing exactly the same thing. I would agree with you that the R12 was a robust car. We ran a couple as company cars and it was incredible the abuse that they took but kept on going. Mind you they disintegrated from tin worm before any of the mechanical bits could fail. 😂 |
|
|
|
Post by philip42h on Jan 23, 2024 19:53:56 GMT
It makes it an EV legally. And that in many cases is what may be important. As far as Nissans go, never had any issues with the two I owned, or the old beaten up Renault 12 I can’t comprehend how a vehicle that can only be used once it’s been filled with petrol can be classified as an EV. But in view of the current obsession of governments and authorities generally with trying to obliterate common sense, it not surprising that those cars are classified as EVs. Mind you, bearing in mind that BEVs are charged up using electricity generated by fossil fuel, the Nissan is doing exactly the same thing. I would agree with you that the R12 was a robust car. We ran a couple as company cars and it was incredible the abuse that they took but kept on going. Mind you they disintegrated from tin worm before any of the mechanical bits could fail. 😂 I don't believe that the Nissan e-Power system it is classed as an EV - "So, while Nissan e-POWER is classified as a hybrid system, it operates more like an electric vehicle with a self-charging feature." In many ways it is the ultimate self-charging hybrid. A key boast is that you don't have to plug it in - so all the energy comes from burning fossil fuel. But the key advantage is that the ICE can be tuned for optimal efficiency just to drive a generator ... I think that I'd be more interested in an e-Power PHEV - i.e. something with a bigger battery that I could charge at home from the mains. That does, of course, mean that it would need an onboard charger and would become heavier but it would equally make it far more efficient for local commutes. I was (an am) quite attracted to the Mazda MX-30. The original EV has a 35.5 kWh battery which can be charged from a 13A socket overnight to give a range of around 80-120 miles - which isn't that much and then it needs to be charged for half an hour at a DC rapid charge point so a longer journey is going to be very stop / start. So they've created an MX-30 R that adds an 830cc rotary engine and generator to give extended range (much like the Nissan e-Power system) but in doing so have reduced the traction battery to 17.8 kWh thereby halving the pure EV range. If only they had had the space to retain the original battery size ... |
|
They had no electric propulsion in any way.
