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Post by bothwellbuyer on May 5, 2023 13:42:28 GMT
I bought the Toyota oil (locally...should've used Kingo) and got a local garage to change the engine oil, gearbox oil and diff oil.
Work done and car returned....I noticed wee spots of oil on the driveway, so took car back to garage. Looking undeneath, although the mechanic had used a new crush washer, there was a slight weep of oil at the sump plug. Looking carefully at the plug when the car was up on the ramp, there was a gap big enough to get a fingernail (yep- I've stopped biting my nails) down the inside of the washer ..as if the sump plug had been put back in cross-threaded. They nipped the plug up tighter and it seemed to dry up. After 15 mile trip to shops I checked the sump plug back at the house, by rolling around like a beached-whale on the driveway. Alas, the plug is still weeping a wee bit of oil. Previously to the oil change the car was totally dry...no leaks.
So, what do you think? If the sump plug has been replaced cross-threaded, I guess it needs removed, maybe a new sump plug and certainly a new crush washer. I'm wondering if the thread on the sump pan will be ruined? Or can it be repaired....or is it a case for a thread sealer? I intend to go back to the garage, but thinking about what hassle might evolve for the next oil change.
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Post by jasehutch on May 5, 2023 14:27:06 GMT
Oh dear that doesn't sound good.
I would take it back to the garage that did it but I would want to see if the thread is damaged ? If so then ideally it needs a new sump and plug. Sealant isn't any good in my opinion and only a bodge. When I used to service my Rav I used 'dowty' washers on the sump plug and never had a problem , I just thought they were so much better than the sandwich copper type.
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Post by unclebob on May 5, 2023 14:47:21 GMT
You need to be at the garage when they take the sump plug off again. Then inspect for damage on plug and sump thread, if all good fit a genuine Toyota sump washer …plus maybe a little PTFE tape to be sure it seals .
If not good and thread damaged …say you want a new sump pan fitted at their expense !
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Post by bothwellbuyer on May 5, 2023 15:17:57 GMT
Thanks guys. I wondered about ptfe tape or similar; but as its hot oil wasn't sure. I welcome the comment on sealant.... looked at the Dowty washers and they look good. I did provide them with new Toyota crush washers and having read that you don't need to torque the plug, then it should have sealed. I think the plug may have been put back using an impact style wrench instead of by hand....any stiffness wouldn't have been noticed.
I remember seeing info on thread inserts somewhere but as you say Bob, another sump is needed if the thread is knackered..
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Post by unclebob on May 5, 2023 15:45:32 GMT
Don’t except a helicoil thread repair .
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Post by firemac on May 5, 2023 16:17:08 GMT
Don’t except a helicoil thread repair . Definitely not! Not on a sump plug. 😧 |
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Post by bothwellbuyer on May 5, 2023 17:36:47 GMT
Don’t except a helicoil thread repair . Definitely not! Not on a sump plug. 😧 Thanks..it was the helicoil I remembered. If needed, a replacement sump shouldn't be hard for them to get. I think they are going to try a copper washer, but I don't see that working if the plug itself or the thread is damaged. Annoying that such a simple task for a garage is messed up.
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Post by unclebob on May 5, 2023 18:40:01 GMT
Definitely not! Not on a sump plug. 😧 Thanks..it was the helicoil I remembered. If needed, a replacement sump shouldn't be hard for them to get. I think they are going to try a copper washer, but I don't see that working if the plug itself or the thread is damaged. Annoying that such a simple task for a garage is messed up.
Ask for them to take a photo of sump plug and sump thread, after the oil has been drained 👍🏻 |
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Post by charliefarlie on May 5, 2023 19:16:04 GMT
This reminds me why I don’t trust garages …. If it were me I’d be wanting that plug removed while I was standing watching,. As others have said a helicoil is a bodge and shouldn’t be accepted.
But has that plug been cross threaded or overtightened ? Then overtightened a bit more in the hope it stops the leak ? I only ever put a spanner on a plug going in when I’ve turned it right up against its seat by hand. A sump plug above all should only ever need turning in by hand uo to the point when it’s tourqued ….
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Post by three5 on May 5, 2023 19:33:16 GMT
This reminds me why I don’t trust garages …. If it were me I’d be wanting that plug removed while I was standing watching,. As others have said a helicoil is a bodge and shouldn’t be accepted. But has that plug been cross threaded or overtightened ? Then overtightened a bit more in the hope it stops the leak ? I only ever put a spanner on a plug going in when I’ve turned it right up against its seat by hand. A sump plug above all should only ever need turning in by hand uo to the point when it’s tourqued …. Unfortunately the advent of battery operated impact wrenches has lead to a degree of laziness on the part of SOME mechanics.
On the second service on my 4.3 the filter was tightened using the drain plug on the end. The result was that the drain off arrangement could never be used again. Toyota insisted that it was "dissimilar metal corrosion" ( both parts were aluminium ) but could not provide any evidence or argument to support the claim. The plug in question was aluminium and it was perfectly obvious that the corners of the nut had been rounded during the tightening process. My worry with Bothy's sump plug is that it has been stripped by overtightening and the thread in the sump cleaned up with a tap. It's a disaster waiting to happen and thread sealant is not the answer, but it might pass the problem on to the next guy who attempts to take it out.
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Post by unclebob on May 5, 2023 20:37:21 GMT
This reminds me why I don’t trust garages …. If it were me I’d be wanting that plug removed while I was standing watching,. As others have said a helicoil is a bodge and shouldn’t be accepted. But has that plug been cross threaded or overtightened ? Then overtightened a bit more in the hope it stops the leak ? I only ever put a spanner on a plug going in when I’ve turned it right up against its seat by hand. A sump plug above all should only ever need turning in by hand uo to the point when it’s tourqued …. Unfortunately the advent of battery operated impact wrenches has lead to a degree of laziness on the part of SOME mechanics.
On the second service on my 4.3 the filter was tightened using the drain plug on the end. The result was that the drain off arrangement could never be used again. Toyota insisted that it was "dissimilar metal corrosion" ( both parts were aluminium ) but could not provide any evidence or argument to support the claim. The plug in question was aluminium and it was perfectly obvious that the corners of the nut had been rounded during the tightening process. My worry with Bothy's sump plug is that it has been stripped by overtightening and the thread in the sump cleaned up with a tap. It's a disaster waiting to happen and thread sealant is not the answer, but it might pass the problem on to the next guy who attempts to take it out.
Makes me cringe when spark plugs are taken out with an electric impact wrench 😳😳 |
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Post by charliefarlie on May 5, 2023 20:50:27 GMT
Unfortunately the advent of battery operated impact wrenches has lead to a degree of laziness on the part of SOME mechanics.
On the second service on my 4.3 the filter was tightened using the drain plug on the end. The result was that the drain off arrangement could never be used again. Toyota insisted that it was "dissimilar metal corrosion" ( both parts were aluminium ) but could not provide any evidence or argument to support the claim. The plug in question was aluminium and it was perfectly obvious that the corners of the nut had been rounded during the tightening process. My worry with Bothy's sump plug is that it has been stripped by overtightening and the thread in the sump cleaned up with a tap. It's a disaster waiting to happen and thread sealant is not the answer, but it might pass the problem on to the next guy who attempts to take it out.
Makes me cringe when spark plugs are taken out to a electric impact wrench 😳😳 I have a sizeable impact gun I use when taking wheels off and putting them back on. But I undo the bolts/ nuts with a beaker bar I never use impact to start the undoing process, Same putting back on. I run the bolts/nuts up snug then out comes the tourque wrench for the final touch. These impact tools are brilliant. I love my woodworking ones as they really do come into their own, But on cars while fine for nut running etc they shouldn’t really be used. 👍👍 |
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Post by widge on May 6, 2023 5:55:32 GMT
The other thing to take into account is who changed the oil the previous time. Did they have to use sealer to ensure it didnt leak, the garage might say it wasn't very good to start with.
Very difficult to prove wrong.
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Post by firemac on May 6, 2023 7:34:25 GMT
The other thing to take into account is who changed the oil the previous time. Did they have to use sealer to ensure it didnt leak, the garage might say it wasn't very good to start with. Very difficult to prove wrong. Possibly but any competent garage would have pointed out a damaged plug/thread and suggested sump replacement- after all, it’s more revenue for them. Unless of course they did the previous oil change……🤔 |
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Post by bothwellbuyer on May 10, 2023 12:04:27 GMT
Thanks guys. Very valid points. The garage who changed the oil last year is one I've used for years. They've been increasing thir hourly rate to the point where I felt it was a tad high....so I moved to another more local garage. I should have taken more note - as they changed the rear brakes and then a clicking sound appeared which was eventually traced to worn pins on the caliper - that took several visits to find.
I bought the oils and plugs to make sure it was Toyota stuff they used, and asked them to change oils and fit the plugs.
The sump plug leak was spotted as I saw little rings of oil on the driveway...so off I went back to the garage as I said. I had a look at it when it was up on the ramp and really, it was clear to me that the plug was in skew/cross-threaded. As Charlie said, I guess they used an impact driver to replace the plug, didn't realise the plug wasn't straight and wouldn't have noticed it was stiff.
I've ordered a new plug and couple of crush washers, and will then go back (I have told them its still weeping despite a mechanic tighteneing the plug a bit with a short spanner). As suggested, I'll inspect the old plug when removed and compare it to the new one. I'm hoping the new plug will fit the sump and the sump thread isn't ruined!!!! There was a suggestion they would fit a copper washer, but thats not a fix if the thread is wrecked....and as you've said, will only cause problems at the next oil change.
So I'll be speaking to the garage owner. Its a stupied mistake - as said above, hand tightening perhaps with a quarter turn using a spanner if enough.
And having seen where the drain plug is, I could probably do it myself next time.
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