|
Post by ereliablecar on Feb 15, 2022 21:14:43 GMT
Hello everyone, this is my first post, I'm an ex-corolla owner (sold only because I was relocating to my country otherwise I wouldn't) and had a very good experience, I just want a reliable car and RAV4 seems to fit the picture, so I'm looking to buy a (2009-2013) RAV4 , automatic transition but I'v heard rumors that have raised some doubts. I basically heard that the D-CAT engines have problems with the fuel injectors, and since the diesel is particularly bad in my country,it's almost certain that it will create issues. Please correct the following info that I got so far : - Look for D4D because they have the normal injectors , so don't buy D-CAT
- D4D and D-CAT injectors are both electronic so they have the same issue
- D-CAT before mid 2009 have this issue, the one after 2009 don't
Please be as detailed as possible in the reply, I'm almost giving up as I'm not finding a reliable source of info, thanks allot.
|
|
|
Post by charliefarlie on Feb 15, 2022 22:09:08 GMT
Greetings.
To get straight to the point the Dcat engines MUST be run on quality fuel or you are very very likely to have problems.
It’s a lot more than injectors that will suffer from poor quality diesel fuel.
Sorry but it’s the way it is ..
|
|
|
Post by ereliablecar on Feb 15, 2022 22:24:41 GMT
Thanks for the feedback, what about the D4D engines , is that a viable solution instead of the D-CAT engine? Also, is there any chance to get a D4D engine on an automatic transmission? thanks
|
|
|
Post by philip42h on Feb 15, 2022 22:55:01 GMT
IIRC Toyota introduced the fifth injector to reduce emissions and called the new cleaner engine D-CAT. All Euro 5 compliant engines have the fifth injector but after a while Toyota dropped the D-CAT designation and reverted to using the simple D4D naming. You can, of course, revert to a pre-2009 Euro 4 D4D but you already know why you don't want to do that. Otherwise you have the fifth injector.
As Charlie says, you want to use quality fuel and quality oil ... if you can ...
Edit: OK, so I didn't remember correctly ... looking back at a 2014 brochure it is clean that even after Euro 5 compliance Toyota were still using D4D engines, without the fifth injector stuff in cars with manual transmission. Engines in the automatics were labelled D-CAT. And it is clear from the emissions figures which was which!
Quite what happened after that I haven't checked yet but that isn't entirely relevant to the OP's question.
So, if the OP is looking to buy a UK 4.3.5 automatic it will be a D-CAT complete with the fifth injector - as Andy says below. Cars from another geography might be different ...
|
|
|
Post by shcm on Feb 16, 2022 8:06:18 GMT
You have to keep in mind that vehicle specifications vary with territory. Even within Europe, they vary from country to country. In Europe it's usually mostly trim differences, however what may be "true" for one area, isn't necessarily true for a vehicle sourced in another area/territory. Anyway, with respect to UK 4.3 models (and if I remember correctly): 2006 to approx 2009 registration years in UK (production start 11/2005): D4D manual was a 130hp lump with "normal" solenoid based injectors (I know, I owned one). (XT3,XT4,XT5 models). DCAT manual was the 180hp lump with piezo based injectors, DPF and 5th injector. This was the T180 model. Piezo injectors generally give more precise fuelling timings/quantities. It's sort of essentially the same engine block used for both of the above. This model era was the one that suffered most from premature oil burning issues and Toyota had to replace a LOT of engines under warranty. I may be wrong, but in the UK I don't think there was a diesel auto at this point (I seem to remember forum whinges about the lack of a diesel auto) 2009 onwards (production from 11/2008) The engine was significantly reworked. The "T180" was dropped. Manuals essentially became a 150hp unit. Injectors became piezo based but manuals had no DPF or fifth injector at this point, at least in the UK (I know, I owned one). Oil burning issues were significantly addressed. There was a face-lift not long after (production start 02/2010, which would have trickled through to sales later in 2010 in the UK). This is where it gets a bit hazy for me. I can't remember if the manuals ever got the DPF in the UK or when the diesel auto was introduced, but I'm fairly certain all autos in the UK were "150" "DCAT" engines with DPF, piezo and 5th injectors. Kev's (and Don's) late 2012 auto I'm sure was the above "150" DPF configuration. The definite data is on www.toyota-tech.eu/. Register, pay a few euros and do the leg work wading through the data. The "New car Features" documents are usually informative. However it won't necessarily state what configurations were sold in which countries. Otherwise maybe attempt to find pdf copies of the sales brochures. I'm fairly certain for all 4.3 models, UK pdf brochures were available. Personally, I'd think long and hard about buying anything before 11/2008 production (but then it's a 10+ years old car anyway).
|
|
|
Post by charliefarlie on Feb 16, 2022 10:47:38 GMT
No one has yet referred to the main issue with these engines….. Early 2006 to 2010 had problems which meant in short Toyota replaced many engines. But even the later engines we tend to refer to as the “150” had its problems. One or two on here had problems the latest one was a car belonging to Rambler … His 2012 or later was deemed uneconomical to repair and from memory I think he was either refunded or they bought the car back off him. ….
Among the strong advice given over the last 12 or 13 years to owners of any car with the 2AD engine is to run it on quality fuel or put an additive in the fuel. Also to use the correct grade low SAPS engine oil…
Personally even with an additive I would not advise anyone living in a low quality fuel zone to consider a car with the 2AD engine.
|
|
|
Post by shcm on Feb 16, 2022 11:30:13 GMT
No one has yet referred to the main issue with these engines….. Yeah, that's true, nobody/no one has. This model era was the one that suffered most from premature oil burning issues and Toyota had to replace a LOT of engines under warranty. A while back I fixed the GF's mother's car. It was a bit long in the tooth. The garage said it was not fixable and if they couldn't fix it, then nobody could. I therefore got christened "Mr Nobody". The above confirms the name is appropriate. (The sun has also shone out of my posterior since).
|
|
|
Post by gasperst on Jan 30, 2023 8:54:07 GMT
Dear all! Thank you for an abundance of great information! I have a late 2011 rav4 2.2 diesel D-CAT auto 4wd with ca. 150kkm for a couple of months now. I love this SUV! But still I have some questions for you. My rav consumes 11l/100km. Is this normal for such RAV$?? If this is normal I can live with it, but to me, it seems it should be lower. If it is high, I would appreciate your thoughts on probable reasons. (SHCM, I like 6,0l/100km in your signature.) I had a Rav4 2003 waaaay back in the past and I loved it! consumption was still much lower than on this one. What areas should I check on the car? Mechanical issues, typical rusty areas, best-ever mods??
Thank you for your help!
Gasper
|
|
|
Post by philip42h on Jan 30, 2023 9:36:47 GMT
Dear all! Thank you for an abundance of great information! I have a late 2011 rav4 2.2 diesel D-CAT auto 4wd with ca. 150kkm for a couple of months now. I love this SUV! But still I have some questions for you. My rav consumes 11l/100km. Is this normal for such RAV$?? If this is normal I can live with it, but to me, it seems it should be lower. If it is high, I would appreciate your thoughts on probable reasons. (SHCM, I like 6,0l/100km in your signature.) I had a Rav4 2003 waaaay back in the past and I loved it! consumption was still much lower than on this one. What areas should I check on the car? Mechanical issues, typical rusty areas, best-ever mods?? Thank you for your help! Gasper According to the Honest John site folk report between 26 and 40 mpg for a D-CAT auto of that period - so your 25 mpg seems a little low. That said your "couple of months" are presumably December and January - assuming that you are in the northern hemisphere that would be mid winter. Actual fuel economy is very dependent upon the weather and journey profile and a long journey at say 90-100 kph in the spring or autumn months would return much better figures that a series of short journeys in the winter.
|
|
|
Post by gasperst on Jan 30, 2023 12:22:00 GMT
Dear all! Thank you for an abundance of great information! I have a late 2011 rav4 2.2 diesel D-CAT auto 4wd with ca. 150kkm for a couple of months now. I love this SUV! But still I have some questions for you. My rav consumes 11l/100km. Is this normal for such RAV$?? If this is normal I can live with it, but to me, it seems it should be lower. If it is high, I would appreciate your thoughts on probable reasons. (SHCM, I like 6,0l/100km in your signature.) I had a Rav4 2003 waaaay back in the past and I loved it! consumption was still much lower than on this one. What areas should I check on the car? Mechanical issues, typical rusty areas, best-ever mods?? Thank you for your help! Gasper According to the Honest John site folk report between 26 and 40 mpg for a D-CAT auto of that period - so your 25 mpg seems a little low. That said your "couple of months" are presumably December and January - assuming that you are in the northern hemisphere that would be mid winter. Actual fuel economy is very dependent upon the weather and journey profile and a long journey at say 90-100 kph in the spring or autumn months would return much better figures that a series of short journeys in the winter. Thank you for the explanation, Philip. This 26-40 mpg is puzzling me. It is true December and January are the months I'm talking about. I'm not that heavy on the gas pedal, so 40mpg is unimaginable for me. That is why I'm asking if anyone would have any clues like clogged DPF or maybe EGR... I have only worked on petrol engines until now and diesel engines are not my strong point...
|
|
|
Post by davrav on Jan 30, 2023 16:54:20 GMT
According to the Honest John site folk report between 26 and 40 mpg for a D-CAT auto of that period - so your 25 mpg seems a little low. That said your "couple of months" are presumably December and January - assuming that you are in the northern hemisphere that would be mid winter. Actual fuel economy is very dependent upon the weather and journey profile and a long journey at say 90-100 kph in the spring or autumn months would return much better figures that a series of short journeys in the winter. Thank you for the explanation, Philip. This 26-40 mpg is puzzling me. It is true December and January are the months I'm talking about. I'm not that heavy on the gas pedal, so 40mpg is unimaginable for me. That is why I'm asking if anyone would have any clues like clogged DPF or maybe EGR... I have only worked on petrol engines until now and diesel engines are not my strong point... Not really a direct comparison but more an illustration of the effect of cold weather on diesel consumption. My D4D has now covered 145K miles and, during the recent cold snap when daytime temperatures were in the region of -3C and -6C overnight the OBD was showing about 42mpg. Now that temperatures have risen to the dizzy heights of +8C the OBD is showing 48.5mpg. Now, I know that the OBD is generous at the rate of about +4mpg but the effect of the cold is quite clear - and it has been like this since 2008 when I bought the RAV new. Question for gasperst: Are you relying on the OBD or doing 'brim to brim' independent calculations and, if relying on the OBD, are you resetting it after each fill?
|
|