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Post by firemac on May 13, 2021 10:09:19 GMT
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Post by charliefarlie on May 13, 2021 15:55:25 GMT
He’s not saying much different to what we’ve been discussing here....... Expensive cars few can afford then there’s the obvious pollutions from the batteries when they become old. It’s such a really major situation the world is in. Climate doesn't even resemble what it was 30 years ago and the changes are stacking up faster and faster. We are simply dependent on cars but how long can we keep driving them. Scary ....
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EVs
May 13, 2021 17:29:51 GMT
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davrav and Mb2t like this
Post by firemac on May 13, 2021 17:29:51 GMT
He’s not saying much different to what we’ve been discussing here....... Expensive cars few can afford then there’s the obvious pollutions from the batteries when they become old. It’s such a really major situation the world is in. Climate doesn't even resemble what it was 30 years ago and the changes are stacking up faster and faster. We are simply dependent on cars but how long can we keep driving them. Scary .... Yeah, but Tavares is the first boss of a major global manufacturer who is saying that the headlong rush to EVs hasn’t been instigated by the industry and much more rational thought needs to be given to the issue. I get the feeling that most manufacturers only see EVs as a source of a quick profit and have jumped on the bandwagon accordingly. At some point a grownup debate is going to take place and once that happens, the majority concensus may settle on the need for a mixture of propulsion sources: EV, hybrid, hydrogen and ICE. Personally I can’t see how imposing an arbitrary date when the millions of ICE vehicles in use are no longer viable does any favors for the environment.
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Post by charliefarlie on May 13, 2021 18:25:58 GMT
He’s not saying much different to what we’ve been discussing here....... Expensive cars few can afford then there’s the obvious pollutions from the batteries when they become old. It’s such a really major situation the world is in. Climate doesn't even resemble what it was 30 years ago and the changes are stacking up faster and faster. We are simply dependent on cars but how long can we keep driving them. Scary .... Yeah, but Tavares is the first boss of a major global manufacturer who is saying that the headlong rush to EVs hasn’t been instigated by the industry and much more rational thought needs to be given to the issue. I get the feeling that most manufacturers only see EVs as a source of a quick profit and have jumped on the bandwagon accordingly. At some point a grownup debate is going to take place and once that happens, the majority concensus may settle on the need for a mixture of propulsion sources: EV, hybrid, hydrogen and ICE. Personally I can’t see how imposing an arbitrary date when the millions of ICE vehicles in use are no longer viable does any favors for the environment. It doesent matter who says it it’s been said thousands of times..... Sooner or later the changes will be made and it won’t matter whether we can afford it or for that matter how much it costs. Our politicians promise much to make themselves look good and appease the green sector of society. They will be gone and replaced no doubt by even more odious arse wipes long before any real changes take place
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EVs
May 14, 2021 9:22:54 GMT
Post by philip42h on May 14, 2021 9:22:54 GMT
He’s not saying much different to what we’ve been discussing here....... Expensive cars few can afford then there’s the obvious pollutions from the batteries when they become old. It’s such a really major situation the world is in. Climate doesn't even resemble what it was 30 years ago and the changes are stacking up faster and faster. We are simply dependent on cars but how long can we keep driving them. Scary .... Yeah, but Tavares is the first boss of a major global manufacturer who is saying that the headlong rush to EVs hasn’t been instigated by the industry and much more rational thought needs to be given to the issue. I get the feeling that most manufacturers only see EVs as a source of a quick profit and have jumped on the bandwagon accordingly. At some point a grownup debate is going to take place and once that happens, the majority concensus may settle on the need for a mixture of propulsion sources: EV, hybrid, hydrogen and ICE. Personally I can’t see how imposing an arbitrary date when the millions of ICE vehicles in use are no longer viable does any favors for the environment.Maybe, but perhaps the imposition of such arbitrary timescales is precisely what is needed to motivate vehicle manufacturers? By threatening their ability to sell product, governments around the world are 'encouraging' vehicle manufacturers to invest in newer, possibly cleaner, solutions - without the threatened deadline, why would they bother? And then 'yes' entirely - I'm yet to be convinced that pure EVs alone are the answer and what is available today is far too expensive ...
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EVs
May 14, 2021 10:05:55 GMT
Post by clarki on May 14, 2021 10:05:55 GMT
When I replace the Yaris it will be with an EV. Nothing big and expensive - there are a lot of sensible size EVs coming next year and I do quite like the mini EV available now. Wont be doing it to save the environment, nor will I worry about what happens to the old batteries. I'll buy (well probably lease tbh) one because it best suits my needs. Work is 9 miles away, so a car barely gets warm by the time I get to/from work and on the times i've borrowed my mums (she's on her 2nd EV) it's great being able to get into a fully warmed up car, particularly in the winter. All done from the app whilst your still in bed!! Add in the fact that we now have charge points at work and it all begins to make sense. If you lease an EV and run it as a business car, with all the P11D benefits its actually quite good value for money. Buying them outright is expensive, but you can go to Toyota these days and pay £33.5K for a Yaris
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EVs
May 14, 2021 11:25:44 GMT
Post by clarki on May 14, 2021 11:25:44 GMT
Are hydrogen cars done now?
Sure there was an article last year that Toyota are in bed with BMW over hydrogen powered cars. And were JLR and Honda not heavily investing also?
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EVs
May 14, 2021 11:42:25 GMT
Post by philip42h on May 14, 2021 11:42:25 GMT
When I replace the Yaris it will be with an EV. Nothing big and expensive - there are a lot of sensible size EVs coming next year and I do quite like the mini EV available now. Wont be doing it to save the environment, nor will I worry about what happens to the old batteries. I'll buy (well probably lease tbh) one because it best suits my needs. Work is 9 miles away, so a car barely gets warm by the time I get to/from work and on the times i've borrowed my mums (she's on her 2nd EV) it's great being able to get into a fully warmed up car, particularly in the winter. All done from the app whilst your still in bed!! Add in the fact that we now have charge points at work and it all begins to make sense. If you lease an EV and run it as a business car, with all the P11D benefits its actually quite good value for money. Buying them outright is expensive, but you can go to Toyota these days and pay £33.5K for a Yaris And that's the point - if you are a "company car" driver with a regular, modest, commute an EV is ideal - and you keep something very naughty and interesting for weekend fun! As a 'retired' private car buyer they just don't make sense at all. My wife would really love a Mini, and an electric Mini at that. It has a quoted range 140-145 miles so you wouldn't even have to charge it every day, and it would get us to the shops etc. comfortably. But she would suffer range anxiety every time she went to visit her mum - that's 143 miles so very real range anxiety and most of the time she probably wouldn't quite make it, so she'd have to plan a recharge stop on route - in her diesel she does the journey non-stop. None of our children live within 150 miles - I obviously did something right there - so a Mini EV would be useless. At around £30k on the road it's not as expensive as some but a new Yaris hybrid would be better value without the limitations ... (but she didn't want one of those). It's OK though, we've got a proper car in the form of the RAV - it'll go as far as we can drive - so we may yet go EV for the second car ... we just not very good at sharing!
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EVs
May 14, 2021 11:49:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by widge on May 14, 2021 11:49:50 GMT
Yeah, but Tavares is the first boss of a major global manufacturer who is saying that the headlong rush to EVs hasn’t been instigated by the industry and much more rational thought needs to be given to the issue. I get the feeling that most manufacturers only see EVs as a source of a quick profit and have jumped on the bandwagon accordingly. At some point a grownup debate is going to take place and once that happens, the majority concensus may settle on the need for a mixture of propulsion sources: EV, hybrid, hydrogen and ICE. Personally I can’t see how imposing an arbitrary date when the millions of ICE vehicles in use are no longer viable does any favors for the environment. It doesent matter who says it it’s been said thousands of times..... Sooner or later the changes will be made and it won’t matter whether we can afford it or for that matter how much it costs. Our politicians promise much to make themselves look good and appease the green sector of society. They will be gone and replaced no doubt by even more odious arse wipes long before any real changes take place Although I agree with the sentiment and we have a long way to go before we can build batteries without the current environmental impacts from using rare metals etc. Or improve other types of propulsion But to imply that there no difference between millions of vehicles that happen to pass an immisions test once a year, every two years in France and the low number of power stations which are far easier to have strict controls on immisions, even ones that still use fossle fuels is wrong.
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EVs
May 14, 2021 13:57:42 GMT
Post by clarki on May 14, 2021 13:57:42 GMT
My wife would really love a Mini, and an electric Mini at that. It has a quoted range 140-145 miles so you wouldn't even have to charge it every day, and it would get us to the shops etc. comfortably. But she would suffer range anxiety every time she went to visit her mum - that's 143 miles so very real range anxiety and most of the time she probably wouldn't quite make it, so she'd have to plan a recharge stop on route - in her diesel she does the journey non-stop. None of our children live within 150 miles - I obviously did something right there - so a Mini EV would be useless. At around £30k on the road it's not as expensive as some but a new Yaris hybrid would be better value without the limitations ... (but she didn't want one of those). It's OK though, we've got a proper car in the form of the RAV - it'll go as far as we can drive - so we may yet go EV for the second car ... we just not very good at sharing! Don't blame her, when I tried the Yaris Hybrid I thought it was terrible. The petrol drives so much nicer. Can't help but think hybrids are a bit old tech now too. The Corsa seems to get the best range atm (for cars of this class size) although its a Peugeot which although a bit more expensive does actually look quite cool. Just not a fan of their i-cockpit style dashboard. The next gen mini electric is due next year (yes already!!) be interesting to see how it develops. The one that excites me though is the Zoe RS. If they get to use some of the currently generation Leaf tech in that it could be a great little car. Our client has 2 of the new 160KW Leafs on his fleet and they are quite nice to drive.
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EVs
May 14, 2021 16:37:01 GMT
widge likes this
Post by charliefarlie on May 14, 2021 16:37:01 GMT
Yeah, but Tavares is the first boss of a major global manufacturer who is saying that the headlong rush to EVs hasn’t been instigated by the industry and much more rational thought needs to be given to the issue. I get the feeling that most manufacturers only see EVs as a source of a quick profit and have jumped on the bandwagon accordingly. At some point a grownup debate is going to take place and once that happens, the majority concensus may settle on the need for a mixture of propulsion sources: EV, hybrid, hydrogen and ICE. Personally I can’t see how imposing an arbitrary date when the millions of ICE vehicles in use are no longer viable does any favors for the environment.Maybe, but perhaps the imposition of such arbitrary timescales is precisely what is needed to motivate vehicle manufacturers? By threatening their ability to sell product, governments around the world are 'encouraging' vehicle manufacturers to invest in newer, possibly cleaner, solutions - without the threatened deadline, why would they bother? And then 'yes' entirely - I'm yet to be convinced that pure EVs alone are the answer and what is available today is far too expensive ... I feel the manufacturers won’t need to much pushing to build these EVs . They will after all be making money on every unit. Some have said the production of petrol and diesel cars is to stop and stop way before the deadlines laid out. This even though there isn’t a viable replacement car or cars though of course they will be working on that. The thing is IF man is to stop buggering the planet he must stop NOW and everyone and every country must do the same. Problem is some developing country’s cannot afford this dream scenario where NO one pollutes. One way or another we are polluting and unless we change our lives and expectations nowt will change. The problem is our lives revolve around our transport. We that live in the country may consider moving to urban locations but where can we live ? Housing is short we’re told..... Another minor change were told is we won’t be able to burn most types of wood on our stoves. Now if this thorny subject arises for instance at our village hall folk roar with laughter. First thing said is who the friar is going to police it ? Rural people realise a policeman doesn't turn out to those who have been burgled not to big thick idiots who get mown down by vans. My inane ramblings are the words of a simple man. Those more clever can no doubt say why we cannot live as we do and pollution must stop.
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EVs
May 18, 2021 9:27:52 GMT
three5 likes this
Post by shcm on May 18, 2021 9:27:52 GMT
I've thought for a while, that de-carbonising domestic heating, was possibly as/more challenging than anything vehicle wise. Dunno, devil is always in the detail (which you don't get from headline news reports). 2025, is er, also "challenging"...? www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059
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Post by davrav on May 18, 2021 9:42:52 GMT
Yes, I was looking for flying pigs after I read that.
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Post by three5 on May 18, 2021 13:43:54 GMT
I've thought for a while, that de-carbonising domestic heating, was possibly as/more challenging than anything vehicle wise. Dunno, devil is always in the detail (which you don't get from headline news reports). 2025, is er, also "challenging"...? www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059....... we'll just build a few more nuclear power stations the summer after next and it will all be fine ....yeah! Have you noticed the reclassification of domestic appliances? Some that were A+ and A++ rated are now C and worse! That one crept up on me
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Post by philip42h on May 18, 2021 13:54:55 GMT
I've thought for a while, that de-carbonising domestic heating, was possibly as/more challenging than anything vehicle wise. Dunno, devil is always in the detail (which you don't get from headline news reports). 2025, is er, also "challenging"...? www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059So, upon redaing the headine, my immediate reaction was "that's alright, I don't have a gas supply let alone a 'gas boiler'" - we are oil and wood, and they are not banning them ... ... but the article does contain a link to the actual report which I have downloaded and scanned - I haven't really read and wouldn't expect to pass a test. It is mostly about the energy generation industry - "Net Zero by 2050 - A Roadmap for the Global Energy Sector. And, presumably, it is some quango positioning themselves prior to COP26. But I did look specifically to see what it actually says about 'gas boilers': which is a little different from what the headline says. And that could be a bit of a problem - my oil fired boiler is over 25 years old and must fail some time. It's just as well this isn't government policy (yet) ... So to Andy's original point - "de-carbonising domestic heating, was possibly as/more challenging than anything vehicle wise" - yes, I rather think that it will be!
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