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Post by three5 on Dec 11, 2019 20:51:38 GMT
We touched on the current trend to write cars off for often completely insignificant damage. It is a fact that this is going on and explains why so many cars are now sold as damaged repairable. There are blooming hundreds of them. The obvious way out for the bloke on the other forum is to suck it up buy back the car repair it and spend the rest of the money on joining a decent forum. Buying a damaged repaired car is very often no longer the poor bet it was.... Look at it this way..... My IQ the one that runs on fumes ... Not sure if I ever mentioned that...... Would certainly have been written off when I hit that Deer.... But I repaired it myself along with the screwdriver damage the one armed thief did. So it’s a damaged repaired car.. But it’s not fegisterded as such. So matey should simply negotiate a sensible settlement and get his car sorted. Simple. The truth on value is somewhere between Clarki whom I suggest is having a bit of fun and those who are willing to pay top money for their beloved 3 doors. Jase me old mate. I’ve said this before... You bought your 3 door about the same time I bought my 4.4 Invincible. Since then my car has depreciated by twice the amount you paid for your car.... Whose the mug ?? Call it paranoia if you like, but I’m wondering if there is someone prodding insurance companies to get older “more polluting” cars off the road whenever they can. |
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Post by charliefarlie on Dec 11, 2019 21:10:41 GMT
We touched on the current trend to write cars off for often completely insignificant damage. It is a fact that this is going on and explains why so many cars are now sold as damaged repairable. There are blooming hundreds of them. The obvious way out for the bloke on the other forum is to suck it up buy back the car repair it and spend the rest of the money on joining a decent forum. Buying a damaged repaired car is very often no longer the poor bet it was.... Look at it this way..... My IQ the one that runs on fumes ... Not sure if I ever mentioned that...... Would certainly have been written off when I hit that Deer.... But I repaired it myself along with the screwdriver damage the one armed thief did. So it’s a damaged repaired car.. But it’s not fegisterded as such. So matey should simply negotiate a sensible settlement and get his car sorted. Simple. The truth on value is somewhere between Clarki whom I suggest is having a bit of fun and those who are willing to pay top money for their beloved 3 doors. Jase me old mate. I’ve said this before... You bought your 3 door about the same time I bought my 4.4 Invincible. Since then my car has depreciated by twice the amount you paid for your car.... Whose the mug ?? Call it paranoia if you like, but I’m wondering if there is someone prodding insurance companies to get older “more polluting” cars off the road whenever they can. Possibly .... But then they would not allow us to buy them back ?? Interesting theory mind 👍👍 |
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Post by three5 on Dec 11, 2019 21:18:08 GMT
Call it paranoia if you like, but I’m wondering if there is someone prodding insurance companies to get older “more polluting” cars off the road whenever they can. Possibly .... But then they would not allow us to buy them back ?? Interesting theory mind 👍👍 There'll be a lot of people who are not as bothered as we are who will just take it on the chin and their cars are scrapped. It might be more difficult to stop cars being bought back by their owners without causing a fuss. Davrav and I are definitely in the firing line here if we got some minor damage  |
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Post by firemac on Dec 11, 2019 21:41:05 GMT
We touched on the current trend to write cars off for often completely insignificant damage. It is a fact that this is going on and explains why so many cars are now sold as damaged repairable. There are blooming hundreds of them. The obvious way out for the bloke on the other forum is to suck it up buy back the car repair it and spend the rest of the money on joining a decent forum. Buying a damaged repaired car is very often no longer the poor bet it was.... Look at it this way..... My IQ the one that runs on fumes ... Not sure if I ever mentioned that...... Would certainly have been written off when I hit that Deer.... But I repaired it myself along with the screwdriver damage the one armed thief did. So it’s a damaged repaired car.. But it’s not fegisterded as such. So matey should simply negotiate a sensible settlement and get his car sorted. Simple. The truth on value is somewhere between Clarki whom I suggest is having a bit of fun and those who are willing to pay top money for their beloved 3 doors. Jase me old mate. I’ve said this before... You bought your 3 door about the same time I bought my 4.4 Invincible. Since then my car has depreciated by twice the amount you paid for your car.... Whose the mug ?? Call it paranoia if you like, but I’m wondering if there is someone prodding insurance companies to get older “more polluting” cars off the road whenever they can. Wouldn't surprise me. The insurance business is about half a rung above politicians when it comes to cynism. The most polluting vehicles are the ones in the new car showrooms when you consider the amount of resources that have been used in their production and marketing. Moreso EVs whose batteries are probably the ungreenest product ever produced, not to mention the fact that they are powered by fossil-fuel produced electricity. Your average 10 year old petrol powered hatchback is greener in real terms, yet these are the cars that the insurance companies are so keen to write-off because of a few hundred pounds damage, often cosmetic. Complete bastards. |
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Post by Hoovie on Dec 11, 2019 22:33:52 GMT
Buy it back and fix it is the simple answer in this situation. That is always an option as the vehicle is owned by the insurer and and not the insurance company so they cannot insist on taking ownership.
If you have a vehicle in which the value in the standard market place would not be good enough, then you take out a policy with an agreed valuation, not coverage for market value.
A RAV4 3 door is a 12+ year old 3 door hatchback from Toyota - nothing there shouts "special" to an insurance company covering millions of cars. To protect your investment, you need to forget confused.com and chose the cheapest deal, but go to a specialist willing to cover appropriately.
A very good and direct comparision is the VW T4 Van. To a standard insurance company, it is 15+ year old panel van no different from a Ford Transit. If you have a T4 which would cost at least 3x more than an equivalant Transit of the same age and want cover to suit, you go specialist. It is that simple. My own VW van is a 16 year old van, but I have a policy with a specialist insurer and with an agreed valuation as a protection.
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Post by firemac on Dec 11, 2019 23:03:21 GMT
Buy it back and fix it is the simple answer in this situation. That is always an option as the vehicle is owned by the insurer and and not the insurance company so they cannot insist on taking ownership. If you have a vehicle in which the value in the standard market place would not be good enough, then you take out a policy with an agreed valuation, not coverage for market value. A RAV4 3 door is a 12+ year old 3 door hatchback from Toyota - nothing there shouts "special" to an insurance company covering millions of cars. To protect your investment, you need to forget confused.com and chose the cheapest deal, but go to a specialist willing to cover appropriately. A very good and direct comparision is the VW T4 Van. To a standard insurance company, it is 15+ year old panel van no different from a Ford Transit. If you have a T4 which would cost at least 3x more than an equivalant Transit of the same age and want cover to suit, you go specialist. It is that simple. My own VW van is a 16 year old van, but I have a policy with a specialist insurer and with an agreed valuation as a protection. Agree, David, but agreed value policies tend sometimes to be prohibitively expensive although they do give peace of mind. As a matter of interest, can I ask who your VW is insured with? |
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Post by Hoovie on Dec 12, 2019 0:22:37 GMT
I am with A-Plan as a broker. Can't recall who the underwriter is.
The Agreed Valuation I have is not a large amount by any means, but a lot more than a 16 year old minibus would fetch. There was no extra cost for this, I just had to provide details of why the valuation I requested was justified.
I would imagine a similar process for an unmodified but 'cult' car like the RAV4 3 Door would involve providing examples of selling prices of these cars, but BEFORE the policy is taken out, and not for a claim. Again, the actual Agreed Value on a RAV4 3 Door is not going to be big at all compared to masses of other mainstream cars (what? £8k tops? £10K in an extreme showroom condition?) so it is not as if it is an unreasonable cover, but it is one that should be done up front.
There are lots of cars in a similar situation as the RAV4 3-Door. Citroen 2CVs have a much greater value than may be expected by non-enthusiasts for example.
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Post by firemac on Dec 12, 2019 9:33:31 GMT
I am with A-Plan as a broker. Can't recall who the underwriter is. The Agreed Valuation I have is not a large amount by any means, but a lot more than a 16 year old minibus would fetch. There was no extra cost for this, I just had to provide details of why the valuation I requested was justified. I would imagine a similar process for an unmodified but 'cult' car like the RAV4 3 Door would involve providing examples of selling prices of these cars, but BEFORE the policy is taken out, and not for a claim. Again, the actual Agreed Value on a RAV4 3 Door is not going to be big at all compared to masses of other mainstream cars (what? £8k tops? £10K in an extreme showroom condition?) so it is not as if it is an unreasonable cover, but it is one that should be done up front. There are lots of cars in a similar situation as the RAV4 3-Door. Citroen 2CVs have a much greater value than may be expected by non-enthusiasts for example. Understand, David. I wouldn't want to make anything out of it but just ensure that I could get a reasonable settlement compared to what I paid for it should it get written off. Ditto the Saab, especially as good 9-3 convertibles are getting harder to find. |
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Post by Hoovie on Dec 12, 2019 11:38:24 GMT
Indeed so.
For my van, I bought it for around £4,500 (and a Transit of the same age would have been £2000 tops) but it has an agreed value of £12,000 and even then I would still lose out as if it were a total loss, that £12k would just cover the van and all the parts in it, but not the time I spent building it.
So many people doing camper conversions try and save money by just insuring a basic vehicle and then get upset when the payout is based on that basic vehicle.
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Post by philip42h on Dec 12, 2019 16:13:43 GMT
I think that there are multiple 'issues' here - mostly covered in previous posts ...
According to Honest John, a late 3dr RAV4 has a value of between £2k and £3k to buy from a dealer; around £500 less to buy or sell privately; and a mere £840 trade-in value. The fact that some are asking or paying two or three times that amount for 'mint' examples shows the degree of 'sentiment' attached to 3dr RAV4s that isn't covered by insurance company valuations.
Setting aside the fact that insurance companies are in the business to make money, most of us look to insure our cars for as little money as possible - knowing as we do so that we don't really intend / want to have to make a claim - and accept cover at what the insurer calls 'market value'. From the insurance company's point of view that represents the maximum amount that they will pay out on a claim. The repair limit is somewhat less - we won't spend more on a car than it's worth and neither will they. Unfortunately, we don't get to find out what the insurers market value and repair limit is until we come to make a claim. The world might be a better place if the insurance companies were obliged to publish their view of market value and repair limit each time we take out or renew a policy. Maybe some already do ... ?
As said above, folk should have the option to insurance their cars for a specified value - and, if necessary, pay for the privilege ...
There is a wholly unnecessary 'stigma' attached to category N vehicles. The N implies that there is no structural damage - the car is straightforwardly repairable, probably drive-able as it is and may even pass an MoT in it's damaged state. It is simply that following an accident, the cost of repair was deemed by the insurance company to be beyond the repair limit ...
So, my RAV had a little bump - a head-on, low speed impact on a single track road. The plastic bumper and front end did what it was supposed to do - and mostly disintegrated - one headlamp lens was cracked, and the air-con radiator (which sits between the bumper and the radiator proper) was punctured. No metal was bent. The car was perfectly drive-able - and I drove it back home. The repair cost was around £6,500. At the time the car was around 3 years old and the repair cost was within the applicable repair limit (whatever it was). The insurance company(s) paid-up; the repair was perfect and no one would really be any the wiser after the event.
If I were to suffer exactly the same 'mishap' next year with the car 7 years old (say) it is distinctly possible that the same simple and perfect repair would be deemed in excess of the repair limit and my RAV would become a Cat N insurance write-off. The only reason for not repairing it in exactly the same way would be simple economics - the repaired car would be at least as good as the 7 year old RAV that is would have been before the accident (better than because the inevitable odd stone chip and scratch on the front end would 'go' in the process).
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Post by phaeton on Dec 13, 2019 9:49:30 GMT
Auto insurance is legalised Scam, end of discussion really.
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Post by Hoovie on Dec 13, 2019 11:32:09 GMT
Auto insurance is legalised Scam, end of discussion really.
I guess in that case you just buy the cheapest policy that covers the legal minimum to minimise your scam cost? or do you puruse the policy to check the features being offered? if the latter, your argument is nonsense. |
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Post by davidwilson on Dec 13, 2019 11:55:18 GMT
Auto insurance is legalised Scam, end of discussion really.
I guess in that case you just buy the cheapest policy that covers the legal minimum to minimise your scam cost? or do you puruse the policy to check the features being offered? if the latter, your argument is nonsense. I do indeed do the former! |
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Post by charliefarlie on Dec 13, 2019 14:07:39 GMT
I tend to choose a proper named company and also look at the reviews before deciding. I could never just take the cheapest quote from a company I’ve never heard of..
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Post by phaeton on Dec 14, 2019 0:04:09 GMT
I guess in that case you just buy the cheapest policy that covers the legal minimum to minimise your scam cost? or do you puruse the policy to check the features being offered? if the latter, your argument is nonsense. I do indeed do the former!
Cheapest quote I can find from a company I have heard of, only ever claimed once in 40 years, when they broke into the car & snapped the steering wheel off trying to steal it. Sorry but it's legalised theft, they all work together to screw the customer over, the prices quoted at bodyshop's is ridiculous, take a car to get a quote then after they give it to you, say that's too high I can't afford it, it's not an isurance job you know, see how much it comes down
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