oxo
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Post by oxo on Dec 5, 2019 1:51:02 GMT
Yes, it's been while. I've been using another car and pushed the RAV4 into the garage, where I've not had time to touch it for weeks. I put a new battery in, but it’s not starting, like it did before. Starter is spinning fine. Anyways... I re-checked the main fuse/relay box in the engine bay, and with better light, I noticed the ALT 100A was broken. It’s one of those with the perspex top, so not easy to see. Turns out the ALT 100A is the ‘main’? Which makes sense, with so many electrics effected. So I grabbed it with some pliers and yanked it out. This was mistake #2. Apparently you have to split the fuse box, top and bottom, because that particular fuse is secured underneath, which you can only get to by taking off the top section of the fuse box. Now there are 4 or 5 plastic tabs, that are stopping me splitting the fuse box. No matter how I try levering them with a screwdriver, they won’t release. This pic isn’t my fuse box, but it shows identical tabs in another Toyota fuse box. Any hints on how to tackle these?  |
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Post by widge on Dec 5, 2019 9:32:43 GMT
RAV4, MK1, 3 door, manual, UK model. Silly mistake, under duress and sleep deprivation.  I got a bit of sparking from the battery + terminal, that should have been a warning, but I didn’t realise my mistake until battery had been fully connected for a minute or two. I’ve now got a brand new Varta battery. Good news is the engine starts and drives. Bad news is a lot electrics don’t work: Indicators work on hazard, but not left or right individually. Clocks don’t work, including lumination. Headlights work, tail-lights don’t. Also not working - Interior fan, central locking, wipers. There’s no doubt more, but that’s all I can remember. I pray there aren’t terminal consequences to this, and it’s an easy fix like fuses/relays. Owners manual states four locations for fuses/relays: 1/ Close to the drivers right knee under a cover, a dozen fuses here, none appear blown: PWR outlet, CIG, SRS-ACC, Wiper, ECU-IG, Turn & Gauge, AM1, Stop, Tail, Mir-Htr, SRS-B, Horn, Defog. 2/ Passenger side footwell, under cover, there’s just one relay (as far as I can tell, just that). Black and marked 3B08 90987-04002 056700-6780 12v Denso. Then two further boxes on the right side of the engine bay. 3/ A larger box with a mix of fuses and relays. Some of these have a clear top, and as far as I can tell, the metal elements inside appear not to be blown, and nor do some of the smaller fuses: CDS Fan, RDI Fan, HTR, ALT, H-LP (RH), H-LP (LH), Main No.1, ALT-S, HAZ, EF1, Dome, IGN, AM2. One smaller fuse has blown, marked Radio 15A. There’s also 3 larger relays: E/G Main (grey) 3B08 85925-17010 056700-7770 12v Denso, ST (purple) 3B06 28300-10020 156700-0503 12v Denso, H-LP (brown) 3B07 90987-02006 056700-6912 12v Denso. 4/ Smaller box which has only two of it’s sockets filled with relays. FAN1 (green) I can’t get this one out, in fear of breaking it, so I can’t read the s/n. FAN2 (black) 3B06 90987-02012 156700-9870 12v Denso. Is there any way of knowing if these relays are damaged, other than swapping them for new ones? Should I swap them all, or one by one, and which ones first? Any advice appreciated. This RAV4 is my only mode of transport right now, need to get it fixed PDQ. This does remind me of a 1961 mini that I had, I wanted to put a radio in but the car was positive earth, I was advised from a fairly reliable source to just turn the battery round and it would sort its self out. Dubiously I followed his instructions and started the engine, the amp meter hit the negative charge end stop for about 10 seconds then flipped to positive charge, all sorted it worked fine after that. Weren't things easier before alternaters and electronics in cars. |
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Post by philip42h on Dec 5, 2019 11:27:33 GMT
Yes, it's been while. I've been using another car and pushed the RAV4 into the garage, where I've not had time to touch it for weeks. I put a new battery in, but it’s not starting, like it did before. Starter is spinning fine. Anyways... I re-checked the main fuse/relay box in the engine bay, and with better light, I noticed the ALT 100A was broken. It’s one of those with the perspex top, so not easy to see. Turns out the ALT 100A is the ‘main’? Which makes sense, with so many electrics effected. So I grabbed it with some pliers and yanked it out. This was mistake #2. Apparently you have to split the fuse box, top and bottom, because that particular fuse is secured underneath, which you can only get to by taking off the top section of the fuse box. Now there are 4 or 5 plastic tabs, that are stopping me splitting the fuse box. No matter how I try levering them with a screwdriver, they won’t release. This pic isn’t my fuse box, but it shows identical tabs in another Toyota fuse box. Any hints on how to tackle these? Disclaimer: I don't claim to know what I'm talking about so reading further is entirely at your own risk and acting on anything I say is, well, ... I believe that the ALT 100A fuse is the Alternator protection fuse. There is a diode arrangement between the alternator and the battery that allows current to flow into the battery when the engine is running and prevents current from draining from the battery through the alternator when the engine is stopped. If / when the battery is connected the wrong way around this same diode arrangement will simply act as a short circuit to the battery. The fuse is there to limit the damage and 'blows' appropriately - so it makes sense that this fuse has blown. Once the fuse has blown, the alternator can no longer charge the battery ... There are a number of, relatively unhelpful, YouTube videos on the subject - including one from a Nissan driver who has blown his 80A ALT fuse by connecting the battery the wrong way around. But from these I suspect (again, note the disclaimer) that the fuse box consists of a frame, a top cover, a bottom cover and one or more fuse modules that sit within the frame. If this is the case you probably need to proceed as follows: - You have already removed the top cover
- Unbolt the fuse box frame from the chassis
- Remove the bottom cover from the frame by manipulating the clips - i.e release the clips and pull the bottom cover down and away
- You may then be able to access the bolts connecting the cables to the fuse, but more likely you may need to unclip the fuse module and again remove it through the bottom of the frame - if there are tabs, they are likely to be accessible from the underside of the frame
Does that make sense?
Oh, I'm sure that you are reasonably paranoid about this now, but don't try any of the above without carefully isolating the battery ...  |
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oxo
Club Member
Posts: 19
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Post by oxo on Dec 6, 2019 19:17:03 GMT
Yes, it's been while. I've been using another car and pushed the RAV4 into the garage, where I've not had time to touch it for weeks. I put a new battery in, but it’s not starting, like it did before. Starter is spinning fine. Anyways... I re-checked the main fuse/relay box in the engine bay, and with better light, I noticed the ALT 100A was broken. It’s one of those with the perspex top, so not easy to see. Turns out the ALT 100A is the ‘main’? Which makes sense, with so many electrics effected. So I grabbed it with some pliers and yanked it out. This was mistake #2. Apparently you have to split the fuse box, top and bottom, because that particular fuse is secured underneath, which you can only get to by taking off the top section of the fuse box. Now there are 4 or 5 plastic tabs, that are stopping me splitting the fuse box. No matter how I try levering them with a screwdriver, they won’t release. This pic isn’t my fuse box, but it shows identical tabs in another Toyota fuse box. Any hints on how to tackle these? Disclaimer: I don't claim to know what I'm talking about so reading further is entirely at your own risk and acting on anything I say is, well, ... I believe that the ALT 100A fuse is the Alternator protection fuse. There is a diode arrangement between the alternator and the battery that allows current to flow into the battery when the engine is running and prevents current from draining from the battery through the alternator when the engine is stopped. If / when the battery is connected the wrong way around this same diode arrangement will simply act as a short circuit to the battery. The fuse is there to limit the damage and 'blows' appropriately - so it makes sense that this fuse has blown. Once the fuse has blown, the alternator can no longer charge the battery ... There are a number of, relatively unhelpful, YouTube videos on the subject - including one from a Nissan driver who has blown his 80A ALT fuse by connecting the battery the wrong way around. But from these I suspect (again, note the disclaimer) that the fuse box consists of a frame, a top cover, a bottom cover and one or more fuse modules that sit within the frame. If this is the case you probably need to proceed as follows: - You have already removed the top cover
- Unbolt the fuse box frame from the chassis
- Remove the bottom cover from the frame by manipulating the clips - i.e release the clips and pull the bottom cover down and away
- You may then be able to access the bolts connecting the cables to the fuse, but more likely you may need to unclip the fuse module and again remove it through the bottom of the frame - if there are tabs, they are likely to be accessible from the underside of the frame
Does that make sense?
Oh, I'm sure that you are reasonably paranoid about this now, but don't try any of the above without carefully isolating the battery ... Thanks, Philip. I will try one more time tomorrow, to tackle those clips. Failing that, I'll get an auto electrician along. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 6:43:58 GMT
So, any info about the auto electricians visit please???
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Post by Dean Gill on Apr 6, 2020 19:12:55 GMT
Fuse block assembly? After trying to fit a new battery to my dads car it failed to start with all sorts of electrical faults. Indicators illuminated but stayed on and didnt flash. After the AA turned up after I left he'd had rolled my dad it was the fuse block assembly. I do not know where this is ? Part no 82620-4-2040. Also dealers are shut and my parents live alone remotely on the moors so need the car to get stores. Can anyone help me. Apparently the AA did start it but many circuits were not working and the battery wasn't being charged.
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Post by davrav on Apr 6, 2020 19:25:58 GMT
Best bet is to contact Kingo and see if he can help:
john.devlin@lindop.toyota.co.uk
No idea if he is checking work emails though.
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Post by shcm on Apr 6, 2020 19:26:20 GMT
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Post by Paulus17 on Apr 6, 2020 19:59:52 GMT
Had the same issue on Mrs Ps Rav recently but got an auto electrician out to sort it out and he did this repair with the short connector cable until I got a new part from Kingo, it worked well for two weeks until the new part arrived and had it fitted. He did say that he soldered it like Jase did to his but said this repair was better. Part No was 82620-42030. Good luck.  |
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Post by anchorman on Apr 9, 2020 0:10:18 GMT
I can’t believe what I’m reading. Any mechanic can tell which is positive and negative on a battery stood 20 feet away from it and then pulling fuse boxes in two. I’m not being funny but stop what you are doing and get somebody who knows what they are doing before you cause any more damage.
Then I’m looking at a piece of wire across a main fuse on another vehicle. If there are any more blunders on that vehicle, we’ll have to hope those eyelets burn out or there are no kids inside the vehicle.
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Post by Paulus17 on Apr 9, 2020 23:52:10 GMT
I can’t believe what I’m reading. Any mechanic can tell which is positive and negative on a battery stood 20 feet away from it and then pulling fuse boxes in two. I’m not being funny but stop what you are doing and get somebody who knows what they are doing before you cause any more damage. Then I’m looking at a piece of wire across a main fuse on another vehicle. If there are any more blunders on that vehicle, we’ll have to hope those eyelets burn out or there are no kids inside the vehicle. Hi Don. If you feel that the temp repair is unsafe then by all means remove my post, and what other blunders do you mean have been done on our Rav?? If you read my original post about this you would have known how our problem came about and I do, believe it or not know the difference between positive and negative, pity you weren't around to help in the first place!!!! |
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Post by anchorman on Apr 11, 2020 6:56:59 GMT
I can’t believe what I’m reading. Any mechanic can tell which is positive and negative on a battery stood 20 feet away from it and then pulling fuse boxes in two. I’m not being funny but stop what you are doing and get somebody who knows what they are doing before you cause any more damage. Then I’m looking at a piece of wire across a main fuse on another vehicle. If there are any more blunders on that vehicle, we’ll have to hope those eyelets burn out or there are no kids inside the vehicle. Hi Don. If you feel that the temp repair is unsafe then by all means remove my post, and what other blunders do you mean have been done on our Rav?? If you read my original post about this you would have known how our problem came about and I do, believe it or not know the difference between positive and negative, pity you weren't around to help in the first place!!!! The problem with that repair, as elegant as it looks is that it is now an unknown quantity. If another short circuit occurs it will depend on what melts first. If the eyelets hold then the copper wire will get hot and melt the insulation. If the copper continues to heat up to the point of melting then the insulation will catch fire and so will anything in the locality. If none of it melts then what ever is short circuiting will continue to do so until something else melts or catches fire. if you look at any 12v battery, even one with no positive and negative markings, the positive is always visibly bigger than the negative. |
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Post by three5 on Apr 11, 2020 19:47:19 GMT
Hi Don. If you feel that the temp repair is unsafe then by all means remove my post, and what other blunders do you mean have been done on our Rav?? If you read my original post about this you would have known how our problem came about and I do, believe it or not know the difference between positive and negative, pity you weren't around to help in the first place!!!! The problem with that repair, as elegant as it looks is that it is now an unknown quantity. If another short circuit occurs it will depend on what melts first. If the eyelets hold then the copper wire will get hot and melt the insulation. If the copper continues to heat up to the point of melting then the insulation will catch fire and so will anything in the locality. If none of it melts then what ever is short circuiting will continue to do so until something else melts or catches fire. if you look at any 12v battery, even one with no positive and negative markings, the positive is always visibly bigger than the negative. There's not a great deal of difference between the "wire link" solution and the old nail-in-a-fuse holder really. I would even have concerns about bridging the gap with solder as I've no idea of the relitive current carrying capacities of the original link material and solder.  Is the best "emergency" repair carefully soldering in a piece of 30a(?) fusewire over the gap. Don't even know if fusewire is still available - it's no longer acceptable as protection in a domestic setting! |
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Post by firemac on Apr 11, 2020 19:59:24 GMT
Maybe I am missing something here but would an experienced autospark leave a customer with a potentially dangerous temporary repair? 🤔
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 21:00:06 GMT
To add my two penny worth I would only agree to such a wire link as a get me home method if I was stranded miles from home. As soon as I got home I would cut that wire link bodge as it is like three5 says a great potential fire risk that I am sure an Insurance company could indeed
would use as an excuse to refuse any claim for fire damage.I also agree with firemac as I am not
convinced any auto electrician would really even want to do that. |
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Is the best "emergency" repair carefully soldering in a piece of 30a(?) fusewire over the gap. Don't even know if fusewire is still available - it's no longer acceptable as protection in a domestic setting!